What Do We Think About Climate Change

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by Pericles, Feb 19, 2008.

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  1. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Bananas

    A very merry Christmas to all of you who believe(in God).
     
  2. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Merry Christmas, Marco and anyone else celebrating and not online tomorrow.
     
  3. masrapido
    Joined: May 2005
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    masrapido Junior forever

    Hi Jimbo, I was refering to usanian economical disaster. As for my world, they destroyed it long time ago, so for us the only way is into recovery. Which is what we are, slowly, achieving.

    As for the climate side of the world, that is true. And in my opinion we humans are contributing to the changes in the environment. Not necessarilly limited to warming, the changes we cause are numerous and in their apparently small ways are affecting the nature. just look at the coral reef near Australia, or the one in Carribean seas. Or Amazonian jungla, where humans have already exterminated 45% of it (but of course there are the "conservatives" who claim only 35% is destroyed, as if that is okay...)

    Not to mention our megacities, like Mexico City, which is now so heavy it is sinking into the marshland on which it sits. Or where 20 million people are producing so much smog, they cannot see the sun on a sunny day.

    Humanity is not shooting itself in the foot. It's shooting itself between the eyes. The debate about global warming is held by two sides and both are deeply burried in their own denials stopping them to see the forest for the tree before them.

    Neither will be there in a near future. They'll cut it down in the name of "progress" (profit).
     
  4. masrapido
    Joined: May 2005
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    masrapido Junior forever

    Marco/mark is wishing himself a happy christmass...funny. Why are you ignoring your other alter egos? They may turn on you...
     
  5. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Hi. Yeah, I've heard that "sinking" thing before. It's not the weight of the city, as some believe - it is that the city was built on a lake. If you have an interest in history, check out Michener's Mexico (maybe Gary Jenings' Aztec, as well) and it will explain much. Anyway, my house is on rock.
    This is a view from where we sometimes take comida. Not quite Mexico but Sante Fe. If you know Mexico at all, you'll know that there are many municipalities and colonies forming the greater Mexico City area.
    Santa_feconj.jpg
    If you look closely, below the most interesting building, you'll see a pasero, or micro-bus (we just call 'em "micros"). These little buggers are the bane of D.F., or Mexico City. They puke whatever it is the nastiest diesels puke and are responsible for a vast majority of the pollution - They are government run.
    This shot shows some of the diversity strangers don't think of when they think "Mexico City". It's just on the other side of the defining highway mentioned below.
    dy3.jpg
    It is from right off the Periferico, the road that circles the city, and is from the parking lot of a Swiss restaurant showing some more modern buildings.
    This
    forest-nevado-de-toluca.jpg
    While not technically In D.F., is just on the other side of that hill in the background of the first picture. We take the kids to ride horses at a club here. I hope you notice, that while the lower parts of town have horrendous smog at times, I almost never see it because I prefer the start of the rainy season there and when it's cold and smoggy we are usually in Cuernavaca.
    Hope this opens your eyes a bit about a wonderful city with an official population of about 27 million - depending on who's taking the poll! More restaurants, more culture, more museums, more people, and almost more fountains than any place else in the world. Insurgentes is the longest avenue in the world. On some days you can pick between horse races, opera, any number of entertainers, Formula 1, symphony, have any food you want, then do antros until tamales at sunrise.
    Talked to my wife a bit ago, it snowed there today. We don't lock the cars in our neighborhood and the house doesn't even have locks..to dispel another myth.
     
  6. Senad
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Senad New Member

    Of course. The government is the right wing conservative.
     
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  7. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Senad, don't start but why don't you give me a message and explain what you are talking about. I was trying to sooth th...ings here.
     
  8. Guillermo
    Joined: Mar 2005
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    So cosmic rays seem to have at least a double effect on Earth's temperature:
    - One through the link with CFCs, as per Lu's work
    - The second through low clouds formation, as per Svenmark's work, already multicited in this thread.

    BTW, on top of their previous work, Svensmark et al. have published a recent 2009 paper in the Geophysical Research Letters where a link between the sun, cosmic rays, aerosols, and liquid-water clouds appears to exist on a global scale:

    Cosmic ray decreases affect atmospheric aerosols and clouds


    Cheers.
     
  9. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    Another interesting article in Geophysical Research Letters (this one on the "warmists" side :) ):

    A strong bout of natural cooling in 2008

    "A precipitous drop in North American temperature in 2008, commingled with a decade-long fall in global mean temperatures, are generating opinions contrary to the inferences drawn from the science of climate change. We use an extensive suite of model simulations and appraise factors contributing to 2008 temperature conditions over North America. We demonstrate that the anthropogenic impact in 2008 was to warm the region's temperatures, but that it was overwhelmed by a particularly strong bout of naturally-induced cooling resulting from the continent's sensitivity to widespread coolness of the tropical and northeastern Pacific sea surface temperatures. The implication is that the pace of North American warming is likely to resume in coming years, and that climate is unlikely embarking upon a prolonged cooling."

    Received 29 September 2009; accepted 10 November 2009; published 8 December 2009.

    Citation: Perlwitz, J., M. Hoerling, J. Eischeid, T. Xu, and A. Kumar (2009), A strong bout of natural cooling in 2008, Geophys. Res. Lett., 36, L23706, doi:10.1029/2009GL041188.

    (I'm waiting for the rebuttal ;) )

    Cheers.
     
  10. masrapido
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    masrapido Junior forever

    Okay, give it a rest now. We got the picture. You are a skeptic. There's no "god" either, but you will beg to differ.

    While listing all those works that you like personally, why don't you mention the ones listed on the right side of the ecerpt of that chinese guy? You know, the links that lead to works that contradict the chinese...There are quite a few too.

    In fact many more than the ones that support your view. Surely at least some of them may not be conspirators and fallen scientists.
     
  11. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Bananas

    THere is God. He was and is and will always be. El es para siempre sin fin. Some day you will get to meet Him, as we all will. I will beg for His mercy if you won't. I even ask Him to open your eyes so that you can know His mercy as well.
     
  12. masrapido
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    masrapido Junior forever

    If there is "god" then there is a climate change. Both are silly concepts invented by people stupid enough to want to rule over the others. People hungry for power.

    I hope Marx and Engels will open your eyes and make you see the truth before it is to late for you. And every other lost soul that shares that fantasy.

    mussolini and hitler were believers too, remember? And franco and pinochet, one creten bigger thanh the other. Is that the company you want to be in?
     
  13. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Bananas

    There is climate change. I never denied that. The cause of the climate change, however, is what we are disputing here. First you tried to scare us into submission by claiming an ice age is coming and we must all bow down so the government can save us then you tried to scare us into submission by claiming the earth is getting too hot and we must all bow down so the government can save us. Just get a grip. We will NUNCA bow down to anyone but God.
     
  14. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Bananas

    Marx and Engels will know God too, when the time comes, along with Lenin, Mao, Stalin, Mugabe and all the rest of those who deny Him now. There will be much wailing and knashing of teeth.
     

  15. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    You have some very good points, MasRapido, Cya around. Hoyt, God bless, Merry Christmas.
     
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