What Do We Think About Climate Change

(Continued from post 3705)

What's happening with India's position?

"With a 'rebellion' by its Copenhagen negotiators rendering the government vulnerable to attack from the domestic constituency, environment minister Jairam Ramesh on Sunday was forced to step in to douse the fire with a promise that there would be no change in India’s red marks at the climate change talks."
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-of-Copenhagen-Summit/articleshow/5309163.cms

 

There are many standpoints in this debacle. The fact that a bunch of capitalist ****** (here I go again, sorry...) got greedy and lied (that is how the usa crisis happened too. It's an intrinsic and embedded behavioural characteristic of almost anyone who is exposed to the for-profit environment.) is not really a surprise. Nothing new on the west...

However, here's an undeniable fact, on the photo I made today of the Andes above Santiago. The highest peak is above 5 kilometres and A kid I do not remember it being ever without the snow cover. The disappearance of the never-melting snow cover was gradual so it is hard to tell when exactly it was gone, or started melting. It simply melted away throughout the years.

Remember, these mountains you are looking at are over 5 km high. On that altitude it is always cold. Summer or winter, the temps are, well - were, always consistently low due to the altitude.

No more snow. While such events are cyclical, and have happened before, they happen over hundreds or thousands of years, not in a decade or less.

So, we are contributing to the natural process. That those "scientists" are bunch of incompetent fuckups, that at least is undeniable fact. But consider the photo too. I'll try to dig up an old photo that shows a large snow cover over the peaks, going down one third of the whole height in the middle of the summer. I'm talking 10-15 years ago only.

That will give you an idea of the actual change which had happened in an extremely short period of time. Unnaturally short.

Stupid humans. Who let the scum multiply?

 

http://www.garagetv.be/video-galeri...rce=GTVPlayer-&utm_medium=LopendFilmpjeExtern

 

Nowadays it's the methane that is "real" danger. "Many" times more dangerous that the CO2.

Funny thing, it may even be...But to me, it's the heat we produce every day that is the real problem. It accumulates in the surface water, and once that accumulator stores the heat, it is hard to cool it down. There's a lot of salty water that holds the heat quite well.

And that is what melts the polar ice, not the gases.

But the "scientists" are "qualified" to ******** from a position of "authority"...
As if a uni diploma actually means that who has it knows what s/he is crapping about.

Good doco, though.

 

Good point. Because we know that nobody in government would ever tell a lie or work for their own ends and against the best interests of the people. Only those evil capitalists ever work in their own interests. And if we outlaw capitalism, all of those evil capitalists are going to go into government and instantly turn into pure-hearted humanitarians that love puppies and weep for sad babies because government just has that magical effect on people.

 

As funny as it was, you may re-think capitalists "going into" the government...

(they ARE the government...See you live in what you were told is "socialism": govt making draconian laws, pushing people to spy on each other, allow police to imprison people indefinitely and without charge, share the money with "directors" and print as much as it wants to save these "directors' arses from disasters...that IS capitalism)

Blessed Marx and Engels, I am so easy to crank up...Now the herd willrun me over and it'll be all your fault.

Just watch the avalanche coming!



Roosters, I was minding my own biz, until Dave came and made me rant...It's his fault!!!

 

No, mas, you misunderstood me! I love governments that control everything and take all of those hard decisions away from people! In a capitalist society, some evil factory owner comes to you and says, "Hey, peasant, you can come to work for me and do what I tell you and take the pay I give you or you can go work for someone else!" But in an enlightened Marxist society, a puppy-loving government bureaucrat comes to you and says, "Hey, comrade, you can come to work for me and do what I tell you and take the pay I give you or you can go starve because no one else is allowed to hire you." See how much more stark that choice is? How much easier to make a decision?

Oh, sure, your options are more limited in the Marxist society, but they make up for that by truly caring about you. You can tell they care about you because they call you comrade and they love puppies. That evil old factory owner doesn't care about you, he just wants to exploit you by giving you money. If you want health care or a fast car or a boat, you have to decide for yourself how to spend that money. What hell!

No such hard problems in the Marxist society --no, sir! That nice puppy-loving bureaucrat will tell you whether you are getting health care or a fast car or a boat (hint: it's going to be the health care). You get what everyone else gets. Isn't that great?

The important thing to remember is that the government knows what you need more than you do. "Oh, sure," you are probably thinking, "those guys in government in Marxist countries are just the most ambitious and the most amoral people who work the hardest at gaining power, just like the factory owners in the capitalist society," and you're right! But don't forget the magical properties of government service --you know, the thing that makes people love puppies and cry for sad babies and never, ever take advantage of their absolute power over you. That same magical influence gives them ultimate wisdom to know what's best for everyone. They know what's best for you better than you know yourself, and without even knowing anything about you! Is that magic or what?

No, mas, don't think for a minute that I'm not a 100% fan of Marxism.

I know. I'm being bad and getting off topic. But I don't know anything about boats so I have to have something to write about.

 

libertas

Maxima cum animi satisfatione epistulam tuam legi.

 

Bloody immigrants...speak english or go home!

 

Dave, let us not derail the threads' original subject. You speak of something you cannot possibly know a single thing. When did you live in a Marxist society to have the authoritative knowledge of how the things are there...? We can go into that through direct communication if you wish, because it is an interesting subject for debate.

Back to the weather...

 

For Marxist info please visit Jokes thread.

 

So you live in Chile and you are expert in ... What precisely?
Oh...I forgot you watch the snow on a mountain melt away and it is the fault of the capitalist. Yes makes sense.

Fortunately for the rest of those who are still sane, the cyclical changes in the weather are just that cycles. The older folks have said that the weather is now different for the last 5000 years. THe Chinese use to say so, the ancient Greeks use to complain about the change and so did the Romans.
It is colder, it is warmer and now it is colder or is it warmer again?
Big whoop. Greenland was once green. Global warming if it ever happens, will be beneficial for humanity not detrimental. Consider Canada and Alaska and Greenland and Russia with wheat crops. Patagonia will have nice weather, may be worth looking into some specualtive RE purchases.

Global warming is the new "national socialism" that wants to replace the failed communist experiment. The hell with it, we had enough with Mussolini, Hitler, Peron, Pinochet. We don't want more of the same. Switch on your aircon full blast and feel good about it. Copenhagen will be a showcase for the worst of human kind leading by the nose the do gooders and tree huggers ignoramus that want to "do something". Hitler had them in his boys brigade, the environazi have then in their "climate change action groups"
How much longer until they also get armed with daggers that read "mehr sein den schinen?"

 

Hey, genius, which part of "back to the weather" was to enigmatic for you to grasp?

 

I still think we should be treating our only planet a little more carefully. Plan for the future. leave our descendants something for themselves. That kind of sucky, stupid stuff. But the vote here seems to be generally, plunder the ******* while we have the chance, for tomorrow we die.

 

Terry, I totally agree with you we must take care of the planet for our descendants. Precisely the problem is that global warming fundamentalism is, surprisingly, pushing in the wrong direction to that end, in my opinion.

CO2 is not a pollutant and it's good for life on Earth, as it has been for the last 500 million years at least, in spite of what the EPA says . The kind of irrational fight we are doing against CO2 emmissions, is having the following dangerous consequences at least:

1.- The spoiling of huge amounts of moneys which could be much better used for the sake of the poor people of the planet, fighting back the famine of 2,000 million human beings.
2.- The destroying of at least 2 jobs for each job created in the "green energy" investments. This is presently deepening effects of the present economical crisis.
3.- Covering our lands and seas with the terribly inefficient solar panels and other bizarre creations, which sooner or later will end as very expensive trash to be eliminated.
4.- Distracting money from the real necessities on investigation about massive energy sources, as the nuclear, which wiil save humankind in a not so distant future when the next ice age comes.
5.- Rising the cost of energy for all of us today, as the growing amount of the "green" share is terribly expensive. This goes directly against our pockets and the present and future development of the poor countries.
6.- Putting humankind in terrible risks if some of the bizarre geoengineering ideas come to life, as seeding space around the Earth with millions of small mirrors, or the seas with iron (what has been already tested and luckily failed), etc, etc.
7.- If finally we come to be able to diminish the amount of CO2 in the athmosphere (which thanks God we will not, whatever we do), this will go against the greening of the Earth which has been growing for the last 30 years.
8.- It is more dangerous for humankind a cooling down of the planet, which seems to have greater possibility of happening the next decades, than a growing in warming. It will be not only sarcastic, but most regrettable if we have wasted our efforts nowadays, if humankind finds itself fearing a snow-ball effect of the Earth within a few decades from now (As it was already feared in the seventies)

I'm convinced my children will live in a much safer world if we abandon right now all this histeria about the anthropogenic global warming and devote our efforts and scarce moneys to deepen our knowledge of climate changes (opening raw data to everybody, of course), find adaptational strategies and look for ways of producing cheap energy and enough food for whatever tenths of millions of people our descendants will be on the planet.

Two most important aspects to invest in, in my opinion: nuclear power (fision & fusion) and recicling, recicling, recicling.

Cheers.