Welders ?!? (Aluminum)

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by DHN, Dec 28, 2002.

?

What is your favorite welder brand?

  1. Miller

    35 vote(s)
    52.2%
  2. Lincoln Electric

    14 vote(s)
    20.9%
  3. Hobart

    5 vote(s)
    7.5%
  4. Other

    13 vote(s)
    19.4%
  1. Guest62110524

    Guest62110524 Previous Member

    i AM STILL LOOKING FOR FEEDERS TO REPLACE MY LINEAR 11,S ON MY OLD MILLERS AND HOBARTS they need to be 110volt, I can see that now they are all 24-24 volt
    when I buy new again it,ll be franious or however it is spelt
     
  2. anton hart
    Joined: Aug 2008
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    Location: cape town

    anton hart New Member

    Tig aluminium and deformation?

    Hi Swoosh,
    You seem to be quite versed in aluminium and steel welding by the sound of things, how bad is distorion on alu with Tig welding, and does pulsed tig, with a ac balance set to say 40 negative with a high negative amp, low positive amp setup, have any real effect on the temperature input?

    If you don't mind, dropping me a mail at antonshart@gmail.com.

    Anton
     
  3. Guest62110524

    Guest62110524 Previous Member

    anton
    I have written
    the poll here is only revelent to todays markets, Hobart was the industry leader, state art best of the best until Hobart brothers sold out, then Miller canned all there big powerpacks, now hobart is a brand for the DIY industry
    bos And Carr in NZ bought my old 600 and a 450 off of me, they swear nothing comes near that 600 for pure straight mig The miiler deltaweld (I have still got) was smoother than the hobart megaflex 450, but the 450 was better on SMAW, and of course has dc TIG a very versitile welder
    yes I probably know as much as most about welding MIG on alu, but I know nothing!! (by comparison)about a.c. TIG
    fair to say though, that, the principles of weld apply to all disciplines, i.e, you need heat to fuse and to penetrate
    tig is a no no when it comes to seam and butt welding, the time taken to heat the weld area is so great that all the adjacent gets hot, the travel speed so slow I have seen so unbeloievable results when boats are tigged, then the welder blames the parent metal properties
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2010
  4. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 7,486
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    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Anton.

    All in all, there is not a great deal of difference between distortion when welding with TIG or MIG. One assumes you're using TIG, for 'thinner' plates?...however, as soon at the metal is heated, it will move in one form or another anyway. TIG does use less heat than MIG, but the HAZ is wider, when doing a direct comparison. But there is more control with TIG, when experienced. Looks better too...but looks can be deceiving!

    If you're worried about distortion, do a couple of test pieces, and see the effects, how much movement, does it rotate does it shrink or does it do both or more, for example and over what spans. Shrinkage is just as much a problem as distortion if not catered for. Then align the structure according to your findings. Whatever you do, don't hold or restrain the job it will move no matter what you try and do.
     
  5. Guest62110524

    Guest62110524 Previous Member

    another pece of terribly misleading and wrong info from someone who has put up no credentials at all, ever upon this site, you can relly damage people with the nonsense you write here , test peices are nothing to do with how tig will effect long welds in seam or butt weldng
    No builder TIGS full stop, just for rails, smail pieces
     
  6. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Stu I would recommend to have a look here:

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/de...l-displacement-hull-shape-min-drag-27972.html

    even if the thread goes very soon very academic, it is very obvious who is the amateur there and who has all the background. Be sure you are barking up the wrong tree. This man may not have your knowledge in welding but in terms of technical background he outperforms you several times.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  7. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Whoosh

    So, since you're an advocate of being open, i assume you do not mind practicing what you preach.. Can you please provide me with a list of the following, not pictures as you consistently do, as they mean nothing:

    1) Your welding code certs, when taken and valid until when
    2) To Class, if so which
    3) What metals are you qualified for
    4) What range of thicknesses you are qualified for
    5) Which formal welding qualifications you have taken and passed
    6) Are you trained in NDT, if so which types and how
    7) What is your ratio of pass-fail with x-rays for class approval
    8) What QA procedure do you adhere to
    9) Which shipyards have you work for (other than your own) an dhow long at each yard

    I assume you can provide these very easily, as this gives a measure of the minimum "training/education" of a welder.
     
  8. anton hart
    Joined: Aug 2008
    Posts: 4
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    Location: cape town

    anton hart New Member

    Hi Guy's,
    My welding experience is limited, but I will throw this out there, and if you guy's could comment.

    I have done a bit of mig welding, and most recently I have been tot he SAIW(www.saiw.co.za) for some training in aluminium tig welding. I do understand that Tig involves more heat input, due to slower movement accross metal, than tig for the same current, and feed rate. But I have met a aluminium builder in Cape town that has succesfully built more than a few (beutifully fair) boats with tig, using a staggered weld technique, deviding the seam into 2.5/3 inch sections and welding every fifth one, and coming back to the 2/5 after moving accross the whole butt/fillet seam andd then 3/5 etc. Thus minimizing the heat input and distortion, also on other threads I have read that guy's are welding aluminium plates without restraining the plate, thus allowing the plate to contract at the weld seam. Also carefully selecting the sequence of welding the hull plates from bottom centre outwards both forwards/backward, and down towards the shear line(upside down hull building), thus not tacking all the plating together and then butt welding all the seam's together.

    The strength due to complete fusion, and the tidyness of the welds tends to sound like the better option, as long as you can control distorsion and heat input. Which I am told can be done succesfully also by using pulsed tig, high AC negative amp, with low balance setting for Neg portion, but low amps on ac pos, with higher balance setting. Thus 100 amp(30%)ac neg/50 amp(70%) ac pos, or something to that effect. Have not tried it yet. Maybe you guys have experience with this sort of welding?

    Thanx in advance for your input!
    Sincerely,
    Anton
     
  9. Guest62110524

    Guest62110524 Previous Member

    i do not need you to tell me or ad hoc how to build boats, boatbuilding is hands on, not ******* theory
    I know very well ad hoc has a ferkin degree, but it is plain he has no hands on NoweI thought we had agreed to disagree? So why are you interferring
    It is very easy to claim this that here,, but claims simply MUST be backed up, by evidence, evidence of experience
    Look I am not a mathamatician, I have no engineering degree, but by Christ I do produce
    I have backed up every single thing, by photos, you name it
    I do knowthat you know NOTHING abt metal , because you wrote asking my advice
    Look Richard, run with this jerk, I care not one Iota, but please do not let him screw other folks builds?
    And outperforms me? I have built for the most eminant engineer in Australasia, a Lloyds build, , the head of 700 engineers, , he and I respected, he learnt from me, I him, This Ad Hoc listens learns from nobody,
    he sits here a lonely soul with, I suspect no life at all
    And you are way out of your field of expertese You build boats built of wood? so how the hell can you know if he is right?
    You have written to me, insulting one of the most respected men on this board, and I take exception to this
    Look , do not judge me, ok, because I demonstrate, I know what I can and cannot do, and when I need help I ask, and when I am asked I give freely
    Boats have been built by slilled and artistic people for eaons, thousands of yeras, We, knwo how boats work, it is a feeling, we dont need ferkin theory, just for theorys sake
    Now I am not abt to EVER print stuff people have written to me stuff that would put others down, make others be seen in a bad light, SO DROP IT, OR WRITE TO ME PERSONALLY
     
  10. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 7,486
    Likes: 1,368, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Whoooooooooooosh

    "...It is very easy to claim this that here,, but claims simply MUST be backed up, by evidence, evidence of experience.." is that your response to my post #37??

    Please answer my post of #37 so you may "back up, by evidence of experience"...just so we are clear what level of experience you have.

    Thank you
     
  11. Guest62110524

    Guest62110524 Previous Member

    you stupid pratt, look at my website. i gave you Lloyds numbers the lot
    you are complte fool and look under posts by lazeyjack which is me
    you are both on ignore, perhaps you fit::) enjoy each other

    <moderator note: please don't insult or attack other members. This is over the line.>
     
  12. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 7,486
    Likes: 1,368, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    I can see from your "demonstration" above in reply to #37 what you 'really' mean by experience.....just years being in the field.

    Since, I wonder why someone who claims to have been working with aluminium since the 70s, doesn't know anything about 6082 nor what it is like when compared to 6061. Also why still use 6061, went out with the ark!. Any quality fabricator would have endless mates in the filed to ask this question, or even just ask Class surveyor if they are unsure, yet you choose to ask a website, like all the other armatures and inexperienced who come on seeking answers to questions from professionals whom work in the filed know and can advise.....hmmm, odd!

    Then again, you also didn't know that 5083 can be bough in any shape and any form,...just what ahve you been doing since the 70s in aluminium?

    I just wonder if you will reply to post #37, since you like to show your gallery, ie pictures, one assumes your happy to show your codes and certs and with whom, in pictures of course since you like to show pictures as "evidence".
     
  13. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 7,486
    Likes: 1,368, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 2488
    Location: Japan

    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Ok, so your reply to post no.37 where you are an advocate of providing evidence is a private message entitled

    "dont ever **** with"

    and you wrote:
    me *******, cos, for sure, I will find you,
    and , then) you are fuckin gone


    wow, such a mature and professional reply to a simple question to back up your claims, as you insist everyone else must do!

    Now we all know, thank you :)
     
  14. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Calm down Stuart.
    Yes I am building in Wood epoxy only, and yes I have no experience in metal boat building, but I can distinguish professionals and non pro´s. And I would like to leave with this statement I do´nt like to start a senseless fight.

    Regards
    Richard
     

  15. anton hart
    Joined: Aug 2008
    Posts: 4
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    Location: cape town

    anton hart New Member

    Would it not be simpler to ignore the insults, rather than replying to them? I really would appreciate some input on my previous post.

    Much appreciated,
    Anton
     
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