Warehouse or Tent for Building a Boat?

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by CatBuilder, Apr 21, 2010.

  1. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member


    This line of thought (which is the same as liki's line of thought) is my natural, default mode of thinking. Keeping wasteful costs, like real estate, as low as possible will give the project a better financial "runway." In fact, the difference between the types of buildings at the 2 year mark is that of my engines! It would be like getting free engines if I build in the fabric building! :eek:

    The reason I'm asking here is to be sure that building in a tent isn't a mistake for some reason. Heating and air conditioning costs in the tent will be enormous, but not nearly as expensive as monthly rent.

    Manie, I take your advice to heart. I will add that I also have some professional experience and understand the costs and length of the project. My 1-2 year estimate is for the *hull only*, neglecting rigging, deck hardware, interior joinery and house systems. This is 1-2 years for a painted hull to be launched, if land-based expenses get out of hand. Fit out and interior joinery will likely take place in the water. I'm full time on this project from now until it's done, with help along the way from my wife and hired labor here and there.

    Cost? I think I also have that down. I know exactly what my materials cost, what my real estate costs, what the cost of launching is, what the cost of additional labor is, what the cost of heating or cooling my build location is, what the cost of making mistakes is, what the cost of every piece of interior joinery and systems is (I have many years experience in that area) and also have a 20% margin added to the entire total. I think I'll come out on cost and on time, but don't we all say that!! :D :p ha ha ha
     
  2. ecflyer
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin

    ecflyer Junior Member

    It looks to me that the tent sides slope inward too rapidly to enable the construction of a 25' wide hull. I believe it will take more than 2 years to complete the hull so I would opt for the fabric bldg. Also, it will be extemely difficult or inconvenient to complete the fit out in the water. Remember, there is a ton of epoxy work left after the basic hull is built. I thought I was 95% done with my epoxy work after my hull & deck were complete and 3 years & 55 gallons of epoxy later, I am still using the stuff and may need to order another 5 gals. How you going to install the drive shaft, rudder shaft and thru hulls while the boat is in the water? If your going to do this work on land, beter figure on 4 years time, not 2. So the fabric bldg wins hands down, just maybe not the one you are considering.

    Have a Spiffy G'Day
    Earl
     
  3. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    Location: North of Cuba

    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    I agree. Quonset would work if it were on a vertical wall. How wide would quonset tent be at deck height, assuming hull was up on alignment jig?
     
  4. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Yup... you guys are right. I may have to alter the tent model. There are literally hundreds of combinations to choose from. I'll get one that fits. They're modular so you can make them as long as you want. As for width, they go up in size to stadiums and arenas, so I should be good there. :) I think the next jump up is 35' or 38' wide. They also have models with vertical walls.

    Earl, do you think it will take more than 4000 man hours to complete just the hull? People I've talked to that have built these Kurt Hughes boats have suggested 4000 man hours was the time it took to build the entire 45' boat, fitted out, not just the hull. Thoughts?

    You have to give me a little credit here, in general. I've been on the water since the 90's. I've actually lived at sea since the early 2000's, barely even stepping foot on land in that decade. I just came back on land to build this boat. I did marine repairs between charters all that time. My repair work consisted of interior/systems work on floating boats and a few patch jobs. I have a lack of experience with composite wood/epoxy, which is why I have some pretty basic questions here. I'm sure I'll remember to put the through hulls in before I launch! ;) ha ha ha As for all that machinery you're describing that drags below the water slowing the sailboat down? I'm not putting any of that on! ;) ha ha ha Outboards only, so I can sail in light winds too.

    Also, I've refit, put systems in and modified many *many* interiors on the water, the majority done at anchor. It's not really any more difficult than doing it on land. Load the boat up with all the materials and tools, make sure your power system is up to the task and build away like you would on land.

    Sorry... I don't mean to sound confrontational... your advice is very good. I've just got many years at sea under the belt and I've done this stuff so many times, I have my ways of doing it at anchor. I'm a guy who has moved ashore from boats for a couple years to build one. I'm not a land guy.
     
  5. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    Location: North of Cuba

    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    No one impugns your intellect. We are all learners here.
     
  6. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Never it takes 4000 hrs to build these hulls!

    But I doubt this figure for the entire boat as well! Except that is a next to no standard, cheap, interior and outfitting.

    Have no idea about these boats as I mentioned on one of your other fivethousand threads, but when you calculate a decent 1 kilogram of boat per manhour, you will be on the safe side! (taking your described experience into account)

    Regards
    Richard
     
  7. ecflyer
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin

    ecflyer Junior Member

    I never built a cat type boat so I can't answer your man hours question directly. I can only speak from the experience of building my own 47' ketch, cold molded wood, monohull. It took me 9 months (approx 1200 hrs) for the hull. Then another 2000 hrs for bulkheads, deck and interior floors and in the process became senitized to epoxy. Then another 2000 hrs to drop the engine in, drive shaft, skeg & rudder shaft, tankage and battery boxes. At the total of 5200 hrs point, I was finally in position to install the thru hulls and deck fills Plumbing needs to be somewhat done for this). I anticipate total construction time to be 6500 hrs.

    Have a Spiffy G'Day
    Earl
     
  8. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    That is a good rule of thumb figure. I've never been able to really get an accurate build time from anyone. Thank you. Using your formula and the boat's weight, in kilograms, I have the following:

    http://www.multihulldesigns.com/designs_stock/45bdcat.html

    Boat weighs 5,398kg. This means roughly 5,398 man hours of work to complete. My allocation of 2000-4000 hours for the hulls sounds about right if the total boat would take 5,398 hours, correct?

    I will indeed be taking some "short cuts" in the final fit out. Although she's a charter boat, I'm not going to go crazy with intricate interiors. Things will be kept simple and with a minimalist style. Beauty for charter will come from decorative things like seat cushions and such. The boat will not have highly intricate joinery, but rather tasteful, but utilitarian joinery. I will let the accents (flatware, dishes, table coverings, etc...) carry the boat for marketability.

    I like this rule of thumb though. It helps to picture the amount of time this project will take. Thank you for this information.
     
  9. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Excellent input, Earl. Thank you for the house figures.

    It does surprise me that the 47' hull was complete in only 1200 hours, especially for a cold molded hull. I'm impressed!

    That's a shame you became sensitized to epoxy. What are you doing now to keep you from being exposed? How are you working so you are not exposed to epoxy? Was it a skin sensitization or are you having problems with fumes?
     
  10. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    You´re welcome.

    No, it will take much less than 2000 hrs for the hulls. Although I have no experience in this building method, I can clearly see that it is far less of a job than cold moulded for example. Should be equal to strip planking in overall time consumption, therefore closer to 1000 or 1500 hrs. (again, it all depends of course. When your cabinetry is part of the srtucture, therefore part of the hull building process, well, you know)

    Commercially built, the hull is about 15% of the cost and effort (in wood epoxy),
    for a homebuilt about 20 to 25%. Many homebuilders have it easier with the smaller items, and / or cut the corners on them.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  11. ecflyer
    Joined: Jan 2009
    Posts: 81
    Likes: 4, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 72
    Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin

    ecflyer Junior Member

    Catbuilder,
    After becoming senatized to epoxy, I had to wear a full suit for protection. My whole body broke out in as rash of pimples just like poison ivy/oak and the itch was unbearable. If I get any sanding dust on my hands, I quickly wash it off thourghly. There are no fumes with epoxy so that is never an issue. The mistake I made was in wearing regular blue jeans while working with epoxy. Some would drip on my shirt and pants w/o my notice. This skin contact eventually builds up and finally one becomes sensitized. I finished my boat but was extremely careful after that. I wore a water proof rain suit while gluing. I applied at least 100 gallons of epoxy after becoming sensitized, so it's not the end of the world.
    Have a Spiffy G'Day
    Earl
     

  12. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    Tent it is then.
     
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