Unique or Vessel Specific Solutions _Engine Room Heat Exchanger

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by ChrisN67, Jun 25, 2016.

  1. ChrisN67
    Joined: Jan 2008
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    Location: Kuwait

    ChrisN67 Senior Member

    Hello folks, I have found that many boat builders or enthusiasts have solutions specific to their particular build that may be of interest to others that have similar situations.

    It is good to get a second opinion to the unique design that may improve or reduce any inherent deficiencies.

    To start off; I had an issue with excessive engine hatch temperatures due to the high ambient temperatures found in Kuwait. It is bad for the Optima Batteries and virtually all electronics.

    I have a twin diesel installation in my Intrepid 339 WA. When I made he new switch panel I had used the label "Blower" for a "Blower". I intended on installing the blower but found it fairly useless on a hot Kuwait day to blow ambient (130F) air into an engine hatch thinking it would do much to reduce the engine room temperatures, especially after running at max continuous cruise. The engine room could easily heat soak to over 160F without some form of effective cooling.

    Thermatron Engineering in Massachusetts specializes in high quality heat exchanger made of copper nickle. I utilized a Thermatorn Model 754SBC0 which is manufactured with 90-10 Copper-Nickel tubes and Copper fins, and is intended for long-term exposure to sea water. It was installed on the transom at a 40 degree down angle with a high flow SPAL 9" fan rated for 725 CFM. The exchanger is capable of of over 36000 BTU of heat dissipation in the current application.

    A Rancor temp controller sensor was installed at the top of the center hatch brace (between the two hatch covers). When the engine room temp reaches 113F/45C the fan and pump turn on. The controller is set to stop when the temperature reaches 95F/35C. The Ranco unit is a great controller for the application because it has room for Qty (2) 10 Amp Seadog push-to-reset circuit breakers (one for fan and one for pump) direct on the face of the Ranco Controller box. So the power on 20 amp fusing goes to the Ranco Temp controller then in the temp controller there are the two push-to-reset thermal breakers (10 amp each) Then from the breakers the fan and pump are powered. Also on the face of the Ranco where is an override switch which bypasses the Ranco unit (Via an internal bosch relay) and direct powers the fan and pump regardless of temp.

    So essentially, when the vessel stops I turn on the "Blower" on the dash and leave it on; it will turn on the pump and fan and cool the engine room until the temperature in under 100F. If the temp controller is in bypass mode it will directly turn on the controller regardless of temp.

    Project Title : Engine Room Temperature Control Via Heat Exchange
    Application: Powered Boats
    Purpose: Reduce Engine Room Heat utilizing Raw Water
    Considerations:
    Heat Exchanger Material, Size and Location
    Adhere Manufacturers Maximum flow rate through exchanger to not abrade exchanger internals
    Pros: Effective heat dissipation
    Compact and very effective / much more than using an AC and less costly than an AC system.
    Cons: Possible leak will pump water into boat
    Less costly/more effective than an AC system but more costly than a blower.
    There is no removal of fumes with fresh air
     

    Attached Files:

  2. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Sounds like it works great when the engine is stopped .

    Does the setup bring the engine room temp. down any while underway?
     
  3. ChrisN67
    Joined: Jan 2008
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    Location: Kuwait

    ChrisN67 Senior Member

    Virtually non existent effect when underway.

    Yanmar 6ly2 is a 6 liter diesel engine normal operated at 30 PSI boost / 3100 RPM@ cruise.

    (3100rpm x 6 litres x 2 bar)/2 x 2 engines= 37200 liters of air per minute or 1313 cubic feet per minute.

    This heat exchanger has little impact cooling the engine room when underway based on the huge volume of intake air.

    Mainly for 2 reasons, size of the exchanger and heat differential. The higher the heat differential the more efficient heat can transfer in an exchanger. As an Example, on the engine, the air into the intercooler (post turbo) is over 320F, after a small 12" x 6" intercooler it drops to about 200F. That is a significant decrease but only because the exchanger is using water at 90F and the incoming air is over 300F.

    Passing the same volume of air through the 12" x 12" exchanger running 1/2" water lines (as opposed to the inter-cooler with a 1 1/2" line) would have dramatically different reductions in temperature.
     
  4. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    What is the reason to cool the engineroom only when the engine is not running?
     
  5. ChrisN67
    Joined: Jan 2008
    Posts: 130
    Likes: 6, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 69
    Location: Kuwait

    ChrisN67 Senior Member

    Trying to cool incoming air is not practical. Cooling is most effective and efficient post turbo.
     
  6. ChrisN67
    Joined: Jan 2008
    Posts: 130
    Likes: 6, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 69
    Location: Kuwait

    ChrisN67 Senior Member

    Utilizing an Android Appliance Like Matricom G Box to View Radar Anywhere

    When anchored offshore, I installed a Matricom Gbox onto the Cabin LCD; this not only allows me to have an Android functionality on the TV, but running Rayview Android Application I can view the Radar and Guard Zone in the Cabin.

    It will work with any TV that has an HDMI or even video connector. It is also a great way to play music and watch movies on the TV


    Gbox: $38

    https://www.amazon.com/GENERIC-Andr...keywords=matricom&refinements=p_36:1253504011

    Wireless Keyboard: $16

    https://www.amazon.com/iPazzPort-Wi...504_img_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=SB18SCMT12GNYSYNMAWT
     

    Attached Files:

  7. ChrisN67
    Joined: Jan 2008
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    Location: Kuwait

    ChrisN67 Senior Member

    Auto Flush of the Fuel Water Seperator

    If a water separator alarms during operation (especially at night), there is a solution to purge the water separator bowl. It is important that an electric ball valve is used to automatically open when purging. A check valve is not reliable as debri may cause it to stick open and suck air into the filter . (It happened to me).

    Also I change to a Carter rotary pump (same as the boost pump in the picture)

    Note: The pump MUST be above the bowl so that water does not settle into the pump and damage the internals.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    I still don't understand the purpose of cooling the engine room when the engine is not running. As soon as you turn it on, the engineroom will heat up to whatever its operating temperature is.
     
  9. ChrisN67
    Joined: Jan 2008
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    Location: Kuwait

    ChrisN67 Senior Member

    When the engine is running there is a continuous large volume of air constantly ingressing.

    The raw water cooling loop is also active to keep the coolant loop and exhaust temperature down.

    As soon as the engine stops , this massive block of hot metal starts to heat soak the engine room. The cylinder head as an example, was at 1250F and now the cooling water loop has stopped. The turbo is also a significant source of heat.
     
  10. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 4,519
    Likes: 109, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1009
    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Kuwait has a different problem with the heat than many other folks.

    We use the 3000lbs of 190F engine as a heat source to maintain the cabin temperature in New England fall cruising .

    A small circ pump , a box heater , and a cool evening becomes a toasty evening.

    *******

    "The turbo is also a significant source of heat."

    Indeed after a full throttle run its wise to run 3-5 min at idle before shut down to keep the turbo lubricating oil from burning and plugging the lube supply.
     
  11. ChrisN67
    Joined: Jan 2008
    Posts: 130
    Likes: 6, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 69
    Location: Kuwait

    ChrisN67 Senior Member

    Nice, this is a basic heat exchanger. I am from Boston and can totally appreciate a good source of heat when Cod fishing offshore in Oct/Nov.
     
  12. ChrisN67
    Joined: Jan 2008
    Posts: 130
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    Location: Kuwait

    ChrisN67 Senior Member

    Engine Runaway Cover

    Ever had a diesel engine run away? I had the experience and now have a heavy gauge canvas bag hanging in the center of the engine room.

    The purpose: to throw over the air cleaner (turbo inlet) in the even of a runaway.

    Brand new turbo, damaged oil output fitting. The oil cooked off in the turbo then the bearings failed. The oil @ 45 psi shot through the bearing into the intake and the engine ran away....I almost broke my thumb pressing the solenoid fuel shut off.

    By the way; the rev limiter WEILL NOT WORK in this situation....the rev limited cuts the fuel...but in these cases the fuel is not Diesel...it is lube oil...
     
  13. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Vancouver

    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    I once saw a runaway at a sawmill suck enough air through the cloth to keep going,until someone got there with a CO2 fire extinguisher.
    Works instantly.
     
  14. ChrisN67
    Joined: Jan 2008
    Posts: 130
    Likes: 6, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 69
    Location: Kuwait

    ChrisN67 Senior Member

    That might work but the volume of air ingested by a 6 liter high reving engine might not kill it, added to that, dumping -70F CO2 into a hot intake and turbo might cause some other issues.
     

  15. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Vancouver

    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    I think CO2 is the least of your worries.

    My Dodge Cummins owner's manual (also seen similar in Ford's Powerstroke manual)

    In case of engine runaway due to flammable fumes
    from gasoline spills or turbocharger oil leaks being
    sucked into the engine do the following to help
    avoid personal injury and/or vehicle damage:
    1. Shut off engine ignition switch.
    2. Using a CO2 or dry chemical type fire extinguisher,
    direct the spray from the fire extinguisher
    into the grille on the passenger side so that the spray
    enters the engine air intake.
    The inlet for the engine air intake is located behind the
    passenger side headlamp and receives air through the grill.
     
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