Trying to compare Jeanneau 54DS & Beneteau 57

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by zamibc, Oct 9, 2004.

  1. zerogara
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    zerogara build it and sail it

    Beneteaus probably hold a record for the highest percentage in charter boats ever. That alone should give you a clue of reliability, for the first 5 years at least, space/comfort, safety (relatively), etc. The First line is racy but you don't see it too often in charter fleets. The rest are just bulky and roomy.
    Jeanneau has fast lines but they are deceiving. Their model numbers in most cases are flashy overstatements for the "ohh... you have a 42', mine is a 45' " type of skipper.
    The B interiors look pretty and will outlast abuse by charterers.
    The only Beneteau I've liked myself is the 45 F5 Pinifarina. There are plenty still in the market in great condition and they are alot of boat for the money!
     
  2. nilo
    Joined: Feb 2003
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    Location: istanbul turkey

    nilo Junior Member

    sayin denizci,

    you have to decide on the merits of where you will be using the boat. in turkey you will most probably use the boat for crusing in the south coast most of the time, where you have great opportunities to jump in the water all the time. a center cockpit is no go!
     
  3. bfraites
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    bfraites New Member

    beneteau 57

    Hello Condor,

    me and MY WIFE are considering buying a 57. I am a new member and was following the conversation. Now after you have sailed it a few miles: how is it to sail, to handle in the harbors (especially backwards like in the Mediterranean the roman-catholic way...). we live in Germany and would sail mostly in the Mediterranean with sometimes limited depth in some fishing harbors.
    can you sail it singlehanded? how is the overall quality? what is the speed you have seen so far?
    how is the splashing on the bottom while you are sleeping in the aft cabin? (i found it always annoying on modern boats).
    how does your wife like it? how long do stay on the boat at max?

    I would appreciate an answer.
    best regards
    B Fraites
     
  4. Vega
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    Vega Senior Member

    The difference in speed between a fast 40ft and your boat is about 1.5 max. In 8 hours of sailing the difference will be of about 12 miles. Of course, if the 40ft boat is a cruiser racer and it is equipped with racing sails, it will be faster than your boat, at least in some conditions.

    The only way to consistently average 10knots on your boat is motoring. I guess that the average speed while sailing should be about 8.5K.

    I guess that you want to say the biggest. Quality is not the same thing as quantity of m2. Saying that an inexpensive 57ft boat has the best cabin under 75ft is…..I prefer not to qualify.

    I have recently been inside a new First 47.7 and I have found the quality of the interior quite poor. I find myself a lot more comfortable inside a Najad 38. There is a huge difference in the interior quality.

    Do you really need all that interior space?
    If not, a smaller but comparatively more expensive boat with an overall superior quality, can give you a lot more comfort (quality of living) and earn you a lot more respect from your fellow sailors.

    I mean boats like the CR48, Contest 44, Amel 2000, Halberg-Rassy 48, Moody 49, Najad 490, swan 46, only to name some that cost about the same as the Beneteau 57.

    A 57ft boat is also a problem in the overcrowded med marinas, at least in summer.
     
  5. asathor
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    asathor Senior Member

    The Devil is in the details....

    As the saying goes....

    The best car I ever owned was a Peugeot 505 Turbo Wagon. The only things that broke on it were the German parts. Go Figure.

    With that I mean to say, save some money to make it right, whatever you buy, it will probably need quite a bit to get it to where YOU like it.

    And by the way VMG in any direction is not about hull speed, its about ease of handling and sailtrim. If you have to work all the time to keep a big boat in the "groove" you will be better off in a smaller boat that sails itself. If you have to run a stinking generator to get power for an autopilot you loose again.

    And if you have to wake your wife up to park it...................... that would be embarrassing, wouldn't it.
     
  6. RANCHI OTTO
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    RANCHI OTTO Naval Architect

    D'ARTOIS......no Porsche car...?
     
  7. asathor
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    asathor Senior Member

    You can't sleep in the back of a Porche and you can't bring a couch along to sleep on, nor tow a boat to go gunkholing in either. And Porches have even more German parts that French cars, its weird the Germans are quite good at making cool stuff but reliability is not a strong suit, and they are simple not very good at manufacturing durable electronic components - Bosch is starting to look a lot like Lucas if you look at the statistics. I paid over $400 for a main cooling fan for a Passat GLX VR6 - but it cost me a head gasket before I knew it was out. The VR6 has cooling problems with one or the corner cylinders just like the old Bug - it must be a VW/German feature - few other cars have a specific cylinder that goes bad - maybe it is intended to improve troubleshooting.
     
  8. RANCHI OTTO
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    RANCHI OTTO Naval Architect

    Porsche is a myth...:)
    sleep in the back.....:confused: :mad:
    I had 4 Porsche and no problems only happiness...:D
    "Passion isn't a logical thing..."(this is mine).....:idea:
     
  9. Guillermo
    Joined: Mar 2005
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    Location: Pontevedra, Spain

    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    Following Tad steps...

    BENETEAU 57

    LOA = 17,78 m
    Lwl = 17,2 m
    Bmax = 4,97 m
    Bwl = 4,47 m
    Draught = 2,6 m
    HD = 0,85 m
    Disp = 21935 kg
    Ballast = 6890 kg
    Sail area = 166 m2
    Power = 160 HP

    Displacement /Length Ratio D/L = 120,24
    Sail Area /Disp. Ratio SA/D = 21,53
    Power / Disp. Ratio 6*HP/D = 19,84
    Hull speed HSPD = 10,07 Kn
    Potential Maximum Speed PMS = 11,53 Kn
    Velocity Ratio VR = 1,14
    Comfort Safety Factor CSF = 1,79
    Motion Comfort Ratio MCR = 31,59
    Screening Stability Value SSV = 76,68
    Angle of Vanishing Stability AVS = 116 º

    Roll Period T = 3,34 Sec
    Roll Acceleration Acc = 0,13 G's
    Stability Index SI = 0,67


    JEANNEAU 54 DS

    LOA = 16,73 m
    Lwl = 14,8 m
    Bmax = 4,61 m
    Bwl = 4,15 m
    Draught = 2,3 m
    HD = 0,8 m
    Disp = 16530 kg
    Ballast = 5000 kg
    Sail area = 115 m2
    Power = 100 HP

    Displacement /Length Ratio D/L = 142,22
    Sail Area /Disp. Ratio SA/D = 18,01
    Power / Disp. Ratio 6*HP/D = 16,45
    Hull speed HSPD = 9,34 Kn
    Potential Maximum Speed PMS = 10,15 Kn
    Velocity Ratio VR = 1,09
    Comfort Safety Factor CSF = 1,83
    Motion Comfort Ratio MCR = 29,73
    Screening Stability Value SSV = 73,38
    Angle of Vanishing Stability AVS = 116,31 º

    Roll Period T = 3,15 Sec
    Roll Acceleration Acc = 0,13 G's
    Stability Index SI = 0,68

    Roll acceleration Vs four physiological states; Imperceptible, Tolerable, Threshold of Malaise, and Intolerable. Malaise starts at .1 G, Intolerable begins at .18 G. G levels above .06 are considered undesirable for offshore cruising conditions.

    SI Type of Vessel

    < 1.0 vessel considered "STIFF"
    ~ 1.1 vessel considered "IDEAL"
    > 1.5 vessel considered "TENDER"
     
  10. Vega
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    Vega Senior Member

    That is a very odd statement. Mercedes, Audi, BMW and even VW are among the more reliable cars...and certainly Porche is the ONLY reliable super sports car....but I fail to understand what this has to do with the subject of this thread:confused:
     
  11. RANCHI OTTO
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    RANCHI OTTO Naval Architect

    You're right! My apologies but the love.....:p

    Thanks once again to Guillermo....very usefull your analysis!
     
  12. condor
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    condor Junior Member

    Beneteau 57 passage to Miami

    I just finished a 1,100 passage from Mystic CT to Miami FL on my Beneteau 57. I can report she is fast, seakindly and safe. We averaged just under 200 miles a day. It was a very windy trip. South of Hatteras it blew 35 steady with gusts to 50, not a fun might.

    The boat was great. We went 1,100 miles and I did not take a screwdriver out. Ended up in Miami just like she left Mystic. We cleaned out the fridge, washed her off and she looked ready for the show room.

    As noted in my earlier posts, size matters. 57 feet eats up the miles. 8+ knots on a consistent basis is good sailing. Even in big seas, the boat does not seem to be trying very hard. The basic Beneteau structure is very strong. In big seas and high winds, the boat hardly flexes at all. You can tell when the doors still fit and the cabinents stay closed.

    Farr design is seakindly. Rarely pounds, even off big waves. Very dry boat, no leaks and we had her in a lot of big water. I am well pleased with my decision. Perhaps the Oyster and other boats are superior in some sense. But the Beneteau 57 did just fine. This is her first year and I have had few growing pains. Some equipment needs to be added ( Sat phone, liferaft, etc. but the boat with some added input from the owner and yard is easy to adpat to offshore use.

    Yanmar design is a true jewel. North sails (tri radial spectra's) did great. In mast roller furling may be technically slower than sail with battens, but it is awfully nice, even off the wind to just hit the button and roll her up when the gusts go to 50 and you don't want to turn up wind in the dark.

    With the $1,000,000. I have left over, I will try to keep up with maintenance and repairs. Maybe buy myself a drink.

    Condor
     
  13. Vega
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    Vega Senior Member

    Yes, very nice and very practical...till the day it will jam. It will not be often, maybe almost never. But one time in bad weather (that's when there is more probability to happen) it will be enough. And in this case size also matters; I mean the size of the sails.
     
  14. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    D'artois - you are now, officially, my hero!:D
     

  15. tammy
    Joined: Dec 2006
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    Location: california

    tammy New Member

    54DS or B57?

    Hi Condor,

    My husband and I have just put a deposit on a Jeanneau 54ds. After reading your comments on your new B57 we are wondering if we should consider the 57, there is a 1 year old in our harbor for sale...however the list price is 1,000,000...significanly more than the 54 all in. You said that you had a million left over which lead me to believe that you have 6 or 700k in you 57.
     
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