Try to avoid being shipwrecked but especially in Fiji on a weekend.

[BPL]

Do you know what the most difficult thing to sell is --Fire extinguishers.

Im not going to set on fire oh no not me .--If it wasnt regulation they would not buy them ..

I live a long way from regulation by choice don't spread that crap over here.

You pay your insurance --you do it.


Now how much would you like to pay to register your EPIRB?

How much have you given to life saving charity this year ille bet I can guess.

Do you want all buyers of EPIRBS to pay this insurance even though they may not sail in the Med or Australia or California.

You do what you want and ille do what I want ---deal?

Leave the world alone and stop suggesting more stupid regulations.

Only crew could come up with a simple silly idea as that.

I go out to sea on my own. I can and will look after myself, dont come save me ---please.

Why isn't it fair for people who choose to buy EPIRBS to pay an insurance cost to pay cost of rescue?

Are you required to have an EPIRB?

Also couldn't marine fuel tax go towards rescue instead of going into roads?

 

[watchkeeper]

Its not mandatory to include EPIRB in recreational craft inventory in some countries, others do require EPIRB included with safety equipement like flares, rockets etc.
All commercial craft are required by IMO SOLAS ans IPSP and govt maritime like NZMarine, AMS recomend all boaties have registered EPIRB and interstate truckies as well.
Some insurance companies require owners of private leisure non chater craft to have EPIRB.
If a referendum was held on EPIRB I would vote for global racing yachts and anyone including me planning a long range blue water cruise have either compulsory insurance or lodge a bond to cover possible rescue costs.
The rescue of British yachtsman Tony Bullimore then French yachtsman Yann Elies cost Aussie taxpayers several million $$. Several other lone sailors and family crusing have been rescued mid Southern Alantic by bulk carriers costing big $$$.

I'm all for off shore racing but the sponsors that make money on the franchise advertising should pay.

 

[Frosty]

hey it works --you click some one on ignore and they dissapear isnt that great ye ha no more ***********.

 

[Corley]

Its not mandatory to include EPIRB in recreational craft inventory in some countries, others do require EPIRB included with safety equipement like flares, rockets etc.
All commercial craft are required by IMO SOLAS ans IPSP and govt maritime like NZMarine, AMS recomend all boaties have registered EPIRB and interstate truckies as well.
Some insurance companies require owners of private leisure non chater craft to have EPIRB.
If a referendum was held on EPIRB I would vote for global racing yachts and anyone including me planning a long range blue water cruise have either compulsory insurance or lodge a bond to cover possible rescue costs.
The rescue of British yachtsman Tony Bullimore then French yachtsman Yann Elies cost Aussie taxpayers several million $$. Several other lone sailors and family crusing have been rescued mid Southern Alantic by bulk carriers costing big $$$.

I'm all for off shore racing but the sponsors that make money on the franchise advertising should pay.

In the scheme of things offshore racers being rescued is a pretty small drop in the ocean relative to the costs of picking up unprepared powerboaters who actually make up the bulk of rescues and fatalaties in Australia.

The anger that was whipped up over the rescues of Bullimore and Elies was more about our media having the opportunity to complain about an apparent waste of money rather than an actual one. When you think about it we have navy ships and aircraft, they cost money whether they are utilised in rescue or not and if they did not have rescues to carry out they would still need to carry out practice drills and training. The crews still have to be paid the equipment needs to be maintained. How much money is spent each time we have a joint military exercise with another country? It's probably classified but I'd be willing to bet that the search and rescue cost pales in comparison.

It's actually something that I'm happy for the government to spend money on just like I approve of emergency services such as Fire and Ambulance rescue. I believe many Aussie's felt quite disgusted with the way our media beat up the costs of the rescues if there are people in need it's our duty to help them simple as that. I do agree though that epirb's should be required equipment to minimise the search time and maximise the chance of a good outcome.

 

[pdwiley]

If a referendum was held on EPIRB I would vote for global racing yachts and anyone including me planning a long range blue water cruise have either compulsory insurance or lodge a bond to cover possible rescue costs

OR have the option of *not* having an EPIRB or similar, and agreeing that nobody will come & look for you in the event that you disappear.

I really can't see what the issue is. For recreational boaters, nobody is making you go, it's a pleasure activity. If you want to risk your life, go for it. If you want someone to come and save you from the foreseeable consequences of taking a small vessel to sea, pay insurance.

If you *had* to insure, I'd be totally against it. I think you have every right to do something like set off round the world in a 12' boat - PROVIDED you're prepared to take the consequences.

What we have now is a half-arsed system where in a lot of places EPIRBs are compulsory but there's no consequences from triggering one.

Maybe if people realised that there were consequences, there'd be less idiots going to sea. One can hope.

PDW

 

[michael pierzga]

OR have the option of *not* having an EPIRB or similar, and agreeing that nobody will come & look for you in the event that you disappear.

I really can't see what the issue is. For recreational boaters, nobody is making you go, it's a pleasure activity. If you want to risk your life, go for it. If you want someone to come and save you from the foreseeable consequences of taking a small vessel to sea, pay insurance.

If you *had* to insure, I'd be totally against it. I think you have every right to do something like set off round the world in a 12' boat - PROVIDED you're prepared to take the consequences.

What we have now is a half-arsed system where in a lot of places EPIRBs are compulsory but there's no consequences from triggering one.

Maybe if people realised that there were consequences, there'd be less idiots going to sea. One can hope.

PDW

You Have to insure or you wont get very far .

Every country that I sail to demands a copy of the insurance papers and your passport before they allow you to sail in their waters. Its the same with ports, shipyards ...no insurance and you cant enter the port.

When a boat sinks and pollutes the beach with 500 litres of diesel.....someone must pay for the cleanup.

The same insurance policy could be improved so that deep ocean rescue operations are paid for.

As far as false EPIRB deployment..its unfortunate. The majority of alerts are false. If you are introuble multiple devices that broadcast mayday are better. EPIRB plus a DSC alert is best

 

[watchkeeper]

English Bay, Southern Turkey 2006 a French flagged (new) 30m yacht was accused by Turk CG of fuel oil polution and the family and boat arrested.

In fact the cause was a grundry old gulet moored upwind of the yacht had had a fuel tank fart releasing fuel oil spill that drifted down on the yacht just in time for an overhead pass by CG chopper.

After fuel oil tests Police released the family but impounded the boat against Euro 45 thousand fine. Insurance company challanged the findings as oil samples wer'nt secured, paid the fine and took the case to court and won.

Point is people like Frosty may in their short sighted view object/rage against insurance companies and they do have faults but they will also go to battle for owners

 

[michael pierzga]

When I hear people talk automatic bilge pumps ...I see trouble and fines. I dont know the legality of auto pumps . Normally a bilge alarm is sounded and the bilge is manually pumped. If the bilge is contaminated , the water is pumped into jugs.

 

[watchkeeper]

When I hear people talk automatic bilge pumps ...I see trouble and fines. I dont know the legality of auto pumps . Normally a bilge alarm is sounded and the bilge is manually pumped. If the bilge is contaminated , the water is pumped into jugs.

Some maritime authorities like CSS now require oily water holding tanks fitted on all boats. Then if bilge pump manifold goes to auto pump on it fills oily water tank before outboard discharge.

I had to fit 60lt tanks on each of 6 x 15m pilots we built for various China port managers against my objection - my hull load case weight was red line critcal to meeting spec speed.

After the problem I had with the Princess yacht in Dubai marina I could see the value but if the boat is unattended and pumps kick in because a sea chest hose has let go the tank will fill then must discharge out board or the boat sinks.

 

[michael pierzga]

In some countries like The Netherlands ,any oily film discharge will be met by an immediate fine.

My emergency bilge pump system is automatic, but the pump intakes and level sensors are 200mm above the bilge low point.

In a emergency when the level gets to 200mm, it will pump. Emergencies are different from normal bilge pumping operation.

Auto pumping of the bilge is bad practice.

Unfortunately oil water separators and slops tanks are impractical on small craft. I use a wet dry vac and Jerry jugs to deal with bilge slops. Works OK and most ports have MARPOL containers so a single jerry lasts a long time.

 

[watchkeeper]

In some countries like The Netherlands ,any oily film discharge will be met by an immediate fine.

My emergency bilge pump system is automatic, but the pump intakes and level sensors are 200mm above the bilge low point.

In a emergency when the level gets to 200mm, it will pump. Emergencies are different from normal bilge pumping operation.

Auto pumping of the bilge is bad practice.

Unfortunately oil water separators and slops tanks are impractical on small craft. I use a wet dry vac and Jerry jugs to deal with bilge slops. Works OK and most ports have MARPOL containers so a single jerry lasts a long time.

Thats a much more practical set up than CCS will allow

 

[michael pierzga]

Yah, regulations can be a blunt instrument, particularly with small craft. The boat Im sailing now is extremely well designed and built, but its unable to achieve commercial rating ...be used as a charterboat .

Earlier a Boatdesign net contributor asked about bypassing a Naval Achitect and scantlings for a big cat. He will soon learn the hard way about classification , commercial use and resale value. .

 

[watchkeeper]

I built three sail yachts in Turkey, 25m and 30m ketch and 36m schooner for EU investors each intended for mixed charter and private use. Two built to RINA and 36m to Germanschier Lloyd to qualify for commercial use world wide.

Every yacht project I get involved with I recomend to owners they build to class so they have charter option plus the resale value is much higher being rated commercial is more attactive to investors.

 

[michael pierzga]

The problem with building to class is the cost of build and cost of keeping in class during the yachts life cycle.
.

Also, some boats like the one Im sailing are built as cruiser racers. The designer strongly recommended against classification if the owner expected to have a competitive, usable boat.

Always a tough choice for clients.

Once you make it you must live with it. Lack of dual purpose, charter abilty..will cost this boat a half million in resale value.

 

[watchkeeper]

I agree, average additional cost for each of these projects was 100k but we didnt include all machinery, only hull fabrication, installation of ships systems and rig.

I did built a 47m motor yacht Sea Winds at Al Jadaf yard Dubai that went the whole monty with GL, added cost to project an extra $1.3m but the then owner spent $700k on interior effects lighting alone with Creston platform...money, not an issue.
This guy would call me, give me 1hr to meet him at Dubai airport to fly in his private jet with his mates to check out something he saw in a magazine or web site.

I would get back 2-3days later to pick up my back to mundane life style till the next call. He was a good owner, I eventally got involved in a UK project for him that got real interesting