Training wheels for my canoe.

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by duluthboats, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. duluthboats
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Location: Minneapolis,MN, USA

    duluthboats Senior Dreamer

    :idea:
    I have spent a good deal of my life in a canoe and love the freedom. I have been doing more and more photography from my canoes and my equipment is getting much more expensive. So I have been considering an ama or 2 for added stability. I want to paddle not sail and I would not want to use a rudder. I have 16’ and 14’ C1’s, and think my 14 ultralite would be a good test bench. What should I be considering, are there resources other than here that I should be checking?
    This just came into my head so thank you for any help you can supply.
    Gary :D
     
  2. duluthboats
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Location: Minneapolis,MN, USA

    duluthboats Senior Dreamer

  3. Wavewacker
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Wavewacker Senior Member

    Sorry I can't load pics, I'm not technically advanced...LOL, so I'll try to explain what I did.

    There are some colorful swim toys that are nothing more than a poly-type foam tube that has a center hole running through it. The tube was about 8" OD with a half inch ID.

    I used an aluminum tube that fit tightly inside the tube. Now for the harder description;

    As a top view, the pipe was basically bent in a "U" shape with two 45 degree bends.. the base of the "U" was about 20 inches, this was centered aft of the cockpit on deck and held by two U bolts using pipe clamps and wing nuts. At each side there was a 45 degree bend about 18" away from the boat and then another 45 degree bend aft, then straight back almost 3 feet. The tubes were over 3 feet long and fit just forward of the second 45 degree bend.

    As a side view, from the first 45 degree bend the tubbing also droped down at about a 45 degree bend just above the water line. The stablizers trailed the boat about a foot.

    I cut the foam just to trim the leading edge going up just for looks, as the full foam tube was around the bend that entered the water. Both tubes would hold up about 200 pounds. I had to buy 2 tubes as they are only about 5 feet long.

    I could adjust the pitch of the stablizer using the wing nuts, raising and lowering both as needed. This was on a kayak that I paddeled and sailed and it worked well to add stability. My tubbing did bend a little, from sailing and burrying the tubes and would have to adjust it ever so often, should have used stronger tubbing. I sold that rig and this stablizer went with it. Might try that, it doesn't look bad (some thought it was a purchased item). Cheap and worked!
     
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  4. duluthboats
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    duluthboats Senior Dreamer

    Thank you Wave, as I think this over the design becomes either very simple or very complex. The biggest draw back of any ama for me is that it will change the way I paddle. Ideally they would be high off the water when traveling and in contact with the water when the added stability is needed. It will be a challenge to get light weight, strong, simple to operate, and easy to mount. The mind turns. :eek:
    Gary
     
  5. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Here is a kayak and a surf ski outrigger that may help you think it out:



    (click on image)
     

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  6. yipster
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: netherlands

    yipster designer

    thats extra resistance and no guarantie you wont drop your equipent overboard anyway
    waterproofing, floatation, safetystraps or netting or so is another insurance angle
     
  7. duluthboats
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    duluthboats Senior Dreamer

    Yipster, I have a good waterproof container that floats. But I need to remove the camera when I want to use it. Containers that allow you to shoot from them are expensive or reduce the picture quality . My open canoe is not what most people would consider stable. I have no trouble with it when I have the paddle in my hand. When I have the camera up to my eye balance gets a little tricky.

    In a dream world I would paddle out as I normally would. When I arrive at a spot to shoot I telepathically command the amas to extend. They would scissor out and down, making my canoe into a stable tri. In reality I might have to use a hand or foot operated pump to do the work. When I want to move on I just open the valve, let out the air and springs would retract the amas. OK reality has a few rough edges, but I have a file, and you guys. :D

    Gary
     
  8. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Arlington, WA-USA

    Petros Senior Member

    Hey Gary,

    I made some simple out riggers for my two daughter's kayaks when they were young. I used two plastic duck decoys (the weights cut off), strapped to a 1 x 4 about 4 feet long. This was simply lashed to the deck with bungee cords through deck fittings well aft of the cock-pit. It was far enough aft it did not interfere with their paddling. they liked the ducks, but I have seen something similar made from bleach bottles and even similar sized blocks of EVA foam (carved into a torpedo shape on the lower half).

    This is a common thing to do for children to learn to balance a kayak.

    With bungee cord mount they are fast and easy to remove, and if you should accidentally run into anything (like a dock) they give easily to prevent damage.

    Simple and effective, you do not need a lot of beam width to give a lot of added stablity, I would test this with perhaps a 5 ft long board, and test it with bleach bottles, or 1 liter beverage bottles, duck taped to the ends. You can even wrap the bungee all the way around the hull for a test, trying out different positions before you mount permanent pad eyes at the gunwales for your final installation.

    Look on this picture list: http://www.redfishkayak.com/moreinfo.htm

    Scroll down to seconded from last picture, there is child's kayak with foam outriggers picture (blue kayak, orange floats).

    BTW, my daughter (in the lavender wetsuit) is the one holding the clear plastic wrapped kayak, it is a simple and cheap way to test a new hull design before you put the permanent skin on it.

    good luck.
     
  9. ancient kayaker
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada

    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    The simplest and least obtrusive way to stabilise a canoe is to tie an inflated bag on the end of a paddle and lash it to the thwart. Specialised bags are sold as "re-boarding aids" at most canoeing and kayaking stores, and fit over a paddle blade, to help you get back in the boat after a swim - voluntary or not.

    For a deluxe setup, get 2 of them and get a long pole so you can have one on each side and still paddle. My local dollar store sells neat velcro straps about 10" long that are perfect for quickly binding things to a thwart; use 2 or more. Bamboo would be perfect for a pole I think, but if you use aluminum tube, plug the ends!

    For another task I made a neat telescopic pole using aluminum tubing sold for radio antennas; plastic spring retainers for attaching two tubes together are available at swimming pool stores, which also sell nice telescopic handles for cleaning a pool. Something similar is also available at hardware stores for cleaning out eavestroughing.
     
  10. Roger L
    Joined: Feb 2010
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    Location: Colorado, USA

    Roger L oldengineer

    That is exactly what happened to us. Then we just happened to stop by a little canoe shop on the west coast of Florida and found this rig in the storeroom. Apparently it was someone's idea of how to solve the problem and he/she tried to make them commercially. Excellent construction and does exactly what you want. We used ours for a few months last year and love them. Wish I knew more about the original designer....anyone??
    Roger L.
     

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  11. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Those are nice. From what store did you get them?
     
  12. Roger L
    Joined: Feb 2010
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    Location: Colorado, USA

    Roger L oldengineer

    I had forgotten the shop & just found it again. It was a shop called "Silent Sports Outfitter" in the town of Osprey-Nokomis down by Sarasota, Florida.
    try:
    http://www.ospreynokomischamber.com/directory/a-silent-sports-outfitter/
    or
    http://www.silentsportsoutfitters.com/

    At the shop they didn't seem to know where the training wheels had come from other than they thought it might have been made by someone in Fla. It was just something that had been in their storeroom for years. But they are clearly well made - and work a treat. Took about an hour to mount them to the canoe. They really are more like training wheels than outriggers in that they rarely touch the water unless you get way out of shape. That's when they kick in with a bunch of ultimate stability.

    I don't think the shop has any more, but I'd sure like to find the person who was originally responsible for the idea. If someone knows......
    Roger L.
     
  13. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Thanks. I'll give it a look.
     

  14. ZenosTurtle
    Joined: Sep 2012
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    Location: Vancouver Island

    ZenosTurtle New Member

    I just built a couple light weight occume vee shaped double ended outriggers, four feet long and will try one out tomorrow on a kayak. Next week I will have both on. I expect to play around with various configs to see what seems to provide the maximum stability with the least drag, wind resistance, and so on.
     
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