Training, Pleasure and Racing Dinghy

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Loren Couch, Jan 31, 2023.

  1. Loren Couch
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    Loren Couch Junior Member

    View attachment 185233
    Dear BDN community,
    I'm projecting an initiative to design a more high end boat for use by sailing clubs and schools, as well as club racing. I'm really open to discussion so I thought id post in order to get some feedback and have a place where I can go to bounce around ideas. Looking forward to hearing from you all.

    Kind regards,
    Loren
     
  2. gggGuest
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    gggGuest ...

    That wheel's been rather thoroughly designed to already. I think you need to think a good deal about what your design is going to bring to the table that's not already there.
     
  3. Loren Couch
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    Loren Couch Junior Member

    thanks
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2023
  4. bajansailor
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Welcome to the Forum Loren.
    I could not open your attachment - is it supposed to be a picture of the type of boat that you have in mind?
    Re your 'high end boat', I presume by high end you mean it should be superior to all the others boats currently in use by sailing clubs and school - but in what way(s) should it be superior or better?
    In the construction technology perhaps, maybe re high tech carbon fibre laminates? Although there are already many high tech dinghies using carbon.
    Otherwise, as Guest notes above, that boat wheel has been refined so much already, that it will be very difficult to try to improve it further.
    Can you suggest any specific examples of boats that could be used as a starting reference point for a design that could make them more high end and hopefully improve them?
     
  5. messabout
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    messabout Senior Member

    Loren, here is the usual reply to posts like yours. First you must create an SOR. That is a Statement Of Requirements. You mentioned Club racing, schools, and also high end. Define high end and help us understand the permissible compromises that could make the dinghy suitable for clubs and schools.. We can go from there.............
     
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  6. Loren Couch
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    Loren Couch Junior Member

    Hey guys, I could direct you to the website www.tpr-1.com, but with the caveat that the design has changed quite a bit since I tested the model, mostly I removed a quite a bit of bow volume and stern with and added some rocker to the aft sections since the dinghy is designed to sail with less SA than most dinghys would these days. The SOR is also on the website you are free to have a look around and post whatever you think. There are also some innovations that I didnt include or added later. It remained a work in progress longer than I expected I basically started the thread on a whim and now realise it maybe I should treat it as a kind of peer review process and only post what is up to date and complete. Well the website is public so you can at least see where my head was at the time of upload which was already over a year ago.
     
  7. Loren Couch
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    Loren Couch Junior Member

    Yes exactly, I want to use a foam/glass laminate to make the boat lighter and stronger than the boats that are being used currently. By keeping the hull light and the SA relatively small the boat would be nicer to sail for racers and easier to handle for beginners.
     
  8. Loren Couch
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    Loren Couch Junior Member

  9. Loren Couch
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    Loren Couch Junior Member

    There are certainly a large number of small dinghies already out there and more coming all the time as G mentioned. I would posit that if that wheel was as refined as he suggested that wouldnt be the case. We would see just one dominant design and nothing else or we would see different boats with always the same shape, to my mind there is actually great variation in dinghy designs, influenced by a wide variety of factors. Thats just an opinion though.
     
  10. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    A foam/glass laminate doesn't have to make your boat stronger, it will make your boat lighter but the boat will be as strong as it needs to be, whatever the construction procedure. The sandwich laminate, which I think is what you are thinking, will save weight but before that it should be studied if the weight savings in the structure, which on the other hand cannot be very great, could affect the stability of the boat.
     
  11. bajansailor
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Just had a look at your website.

    On it you say :
    "The TPR-1 is designed for sailing schools, and clubs for anybody to sail. Ease of use, comfort, and absolute superlative sailing characteristics in all wind ranges. That means great pointing/footing, acceleration in lighter wind, planing ability in higher wind ranges, while keeping your feet dry, and not getting exhausted at any point."

    It sounds a bit ambitious to me to be stating this so confidently, when you have not even built the first boat yet.....
    You are going to have to compete against the likes of Laser -
    Boats - LaserPerformance https://laserperformance.com/boats/

    And RS
    Which Sailing Dinghy To Choose? Use Our Boat Finder To Help Work Out. https://www.rssailing.com/range/

    The lines plan seems to suggest that she has a length around 17'?
     
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  12. Loren Couch
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    Loren Couch Junior Member

    You are right, I might have gotten a bit carried away in there.
    Yes its 16.9 feet long.
    Yes RS and Laser are great. I guess the purpose would be most similar to the Bahia and the Venture, also the Omega.
     
  13. Loren Couch
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    Loren Couch Junior Member

    I'll look into that, Thanks Tansl.
     
  14. gggGuest
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    gggGuest ...

    The drawback with sandwich construction is durability. A training boat will intrinsically get a horrible bashing, and a foam sandwich boat will dent and get the skin holed unless the laminate is very thick and heavy, and if it is very heavy there goes your weight saving. Rotomould in thermoplastic is ideal for that, except that it doesn't seem to scale up well, and a 16'9 rotomould would probably be unacceptably heavy. It might be interesting to explore in detail where boats do get damaged in training service, and whether how much could be saved by having some parts heavily built and some lightly, but I'm not sure what that sort of build complexity will do for costs. A 16'9 boat is interesting in that there ought to be plenty of room for 3-4 modern adults, and most recent training classes tend smaller due I think to the rotomould weight problem. If you can get a boat that big to an acceptable cost/weight/durability balance then there ought to be a niche for it - although how big I wouldn't like to say - but that sounds like quite a big challenge. I think really the actual shape of the boat is the least of your design problems!
     
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  15. messabout
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    messabout Senior Member

    There are already a bunch of boats out there that can pretty much satisfy the stated set 0f requirements. ....Good performance off wind and on wind, Goes well in light air, is capable of planing in a breeze, can absorb some rough treatment, can be built quickly and easily even by amateurs, will definitely fine tune the techniques of the beginning sailor. Can be sailed with reasonable safety by a couple of 14 year olds as long as the weather is decent. The boat will cost less to build than the rig will cost. The boat will weigh about 75 kilos. A 16 footer.

    There are several established classes that fulfill most of those requirements. Some of those have been around for a long time and have had the little tweeks and remedies fully addressed and fixed. I am thinking of the Windmill class for starters. Build it from 6mm and 9 mm ocumee just like the plans say. It is an easy build. Put a 10 ounce layer of glass over the bottom up to the water line and no higher, because of cost, weight, and labor.

    You will then have a spirited little boat that has a lot of experience behind it. It is not a new wheel but It is a sure thing that this one can roll very nicely. It does not have the impressive Portsmouth number that an FD or International 14 has, it costs but a small fraction of the cost of those hot rod boats. There are many other proven designs that have endured over a long period of time. You want a little bit larger boat, how about a Lightning?

    Ask yourself whether you want to promote sailing activity in your area or if you wish to develop the next sailing rocket that will cost a bloody fortune and may or may not exceed the performance of the boats already out there. If you are promoting sailing activity, then stick with proven designs that can attract and keep the interest of the people that are interested. One of the sure thing major elements of a successful program is cost of participation. Go cheap, keep a lot of sailors. Go high end cost, then you drive off many of your hopeful newly enthused sailors.
     
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