Traditional Build with Corecell

There is a welch about 15 miles away. And I know of the Mr. Welch of the welch company.

 

if you can get a good deal on one, it's worth it but as mentioned it's more pump than you need.

 

The only consumables that i would buy from the composites supplier is the vacuum bag plastic and the tacky tape bag sealant tape. The rest comes from home depot...

If you want to give infusion a try - all you have to do to play around with it on a small, say 1/2 sheet, of melamine backed MDF sheet. youll need the vac pump and a catch pot to prevent yourself sucking up the resin into the pump. You can buy one or make your own - choice is yours.

A small quantity of glass, whatever resin they have which has a reasonably low viscosity, and infusion grid scored and perforated foam, also buy the vac bag plastic, 2 rolls of tacky tape, small tub of mold release wax from the composite supplier.

Then head down to home depot and grab some 1/2" black irrigation tubing for the resin and vac lines, a couple sheet metal bending vice grips that roof plumbers use for metal guttering work (resin and vac line clamps).

Youll also need peel ply - you could buy this from the composites supplier also but i bought polyester garment liner taffeta from a textile supplier in bulk instead. You may think you dont need it to play around but its function as a resin brake before the vac line is important.

Then read through Jorges build thread for infusion tips and tricks and ask us for any last advice before you start. Youll be able to see for yourself the results thereafter...

 

So, suppose I want to vac bag a 32' panel.

Would you laminate one side and then bag it, or try for one side, then flip it, then laminate the other side, then apply vac? And I wouldn't need any perforations for that right?

And suppose I want to infuse that panel.

Would you glue the glass to one side of the panel, then flip it over, then glass the other side of the panel, then run a resin pipe over the entire 32', then apply vacuum to on end of the panel or what?

How can I test a welch 1402? There is one for $470 on ebay, but 15 miles from me.

 

To test the Vac pump, change oil or check pump oil & type of oil ,do a test panel.Plug it in read instructions about turning lever to engage ,dis engage Vac which is important for my little pump (and I assume yours)

What I would do from what I read above and from previous Vac bagging foam/900g glass/epoxy Richard Woods 32' Cat

I would get the perforated foam ,low viscosity resin or better specific resin for infusion, it was cheaper than what I have been buying.
You lay out 2 times 450g glass box 45/45 as Richard called for in my case on our 32' Cat Eclipse which is the same size as yours.
You have laid out glass on table ,now you lay the perforated foam on top go glass, with any infusion additions as per instruction above.
Lay 2 x 450 bias glass on top of perforated foam .
Add necessary infusion tubes & catch container and all infusion gear as shown previously .....etc.

Seal bag ,test seal & find leaks & re test seal .
mix & add resin ,turn pump on, engage Vac switch and watch it flow into top and bottom glass and out end tube etc...
I realize this is a hack description, but hope it gives you an idea Dan ....

 

You usually can't test them but they are the type of things that you can get a rebuild kit for or just take them into the shop and get fixed pretty easy. I think I paid less than $150 for my rebuild kit which I ended up not needing. I will see if I still have it.

As for vacuum bagging, I hate that, it's just as much work as regular laminating or more actually and you are under the gun as far as time is concerned. Flipping would be tough on a big panel.

As for infusion - You lay the glass down on your table, lay the core on top of that, the rest of your consumables, peel ply only, if you are using grooved core, lay out your resin and vac lines and seal the bag.

But really important, before you even think about infusing, you pull a vacuum with just the vac hose connected, not the resin hoses, and check for leaks. On a table you will get an occasional pinhole that can still be a ***** to track down.

Once you are sure no more leaks by doing a drop test, that is you shut off vacuum from the pump and watch how much pressure drops over say 15 minutes ... it shouldn't drop but maybe 1 or two inches - Actually it shouldn't drop at all but if there is moisture in the laminate stack it could appear to be dropping as that vaporizes ... so you let the pump run, I would let mine run for a couple of hours, finally connect the resin feeds and then check them for leaks.

Once you are assured that you aren't going to be dragging air through you part and subsequently sucking out resin because as long as the bag isn't airtight, you will continue to suck resin out of the bag starving your glass, then you mix the resin open the valves and bam in about 30 minutes your part will completely infuse.

You leave the pump running overnight or at least 8 hours and unwrap your part next day. Post curing can be done at a later time if it's a panel, doesn't have to be right away.

 

fallguy; to vac bag a 32' panel you do require perforations in the core, core does not need to be glued together to make one long piece.
1. prepare your table with release agent, wax or pva
2. prepare your bag with tacky tape along edge.
3. put peel ply on table & lower laminate
4. weigh and mix resin required for the lower laminate (use 1:1 glass:resin ratio) plus resin to fill the foam surface.
5. pour the resin on to the laminate quickly and evenly, hold back amount required to wet the foam
6. use a squeegee or foam roller to spread the resin around the laminate, do a quick roll with a large consolidator, wet the foam on one side with resin and place on top of laminate
7. mix resin for top laminate and foam surface.
8. pour some resin on to foam and do a quick rough spread and push foam down at the same time.
9. place top laminate in position and pour the remainder of resin over the laminate.
10. squeegee and roller the resin out.
11. place peel ply on and smooth out
12. place perforated release film on top
14. breather medium, wadding or what ever you use
15. bag over the top and seal down
16. pump on, do not exceed 60% vac

 

fall guy - I used to vac bag wakeboards back in the day, long before I decided to build a boat. I vac bagged many boards in the fashion described above. Infusion is so much less stress, less mess and less hard work, if you have all the gear to vac bag onto a table, then yd be mad not to try infusion. Infusion wasn't mainstream at all back then, I couldn't find any help or info on it at time whereas no there's information everywhere and many homebuilders are doing it, more and more each day as the myths surrounding it are busted...

The problem with this woods design is the curved chine in the topsides... The best way would be to use recessed edges along this line and tape together so you don't have to fair out the join. To do all this however, you really need RW to supply you with CNC cut patterns so every panel of foam core will fit perfectly in its place as a panel.

The deck edge chamfers will only need 1 layer of glass because you'll tape right over the whole thing from deck to topsides. Again allow recesses on both...

Making recesses on the upper side of a panel is as simple as routing it with a plunge router to the depth required - say 2mm. The bag will pull down on it and that's that. However making recesses on the table side is a bit more tricky. You'll have to lay some 2mm thick material into the recessed area between the table and the laminate. peel it off once cured and voila. I used sheet PE plastic ripped into strips for this.

 

I bought that pump for 400.

Can't start on the table until I get the lighting installed next week. Probably won't be steel framed I'm thinking some 9 1/4" lvls on 16" centers (4 for 48") and some smaller 3/4 cleats to screw the table in from underneath or maybe steel studs (it'd be cheaper). Then I can hook them every 4 feet and have almost zero twist or deflection.

So, the resin isn't going to flow from one end of a 32' panel to the other, right?

It is probably only going to go like 16'? So don't you need feed pipes and vacuum fittings for two ends of the bag, etc.

I will try to find Jorge's build thread.

Thanks.

 

I have an electric planer I'd use to make the rebates. You can set a guide on one edge and it floats along nice. And only 4 meters of the rebates on the inside are needed, so maybe the panels would be best build inside down and that way I could use some thin pe plastic to support the glass. What about gluing it with 3M spray adhesive in that area and flipping a full panel? Or is it still likely to fall down and become a big mess?

Back to this infusion business.

So, when you mix up a batch of materials to infuse, don't you have to throw away the lines everytime? And what about the pot and the fittings from the pot to the bag and the fitting into the bag? Isn't all that stuff getting chucked everytime, or once the panel is infused are you running acetone through the entire system away from the work? Or throwing it all in an acetone bucket? I don't get that part and I have visions of equivalent messiness, just not rollers and roller losses.

And then if I buy all the corecell with the holes in it, am I required to infuse every panel?

It seems there will be some times when infusion would be silly. Like on the deck, there are a lot of little small pieces that seem like they'd be much easier to just wet out. If I buy the stuff with the hole am I screwed for handwork?

Or do I have to try to split out my order?

And then I was going to buy some pvc for nonstructural internal components to save a few bucks. Can those be infused if they don't have the perforations?

And by perforations, to be clear, I mean the holes in the corecell, not the scrim.

Thanks.

 

The reason I suggested steel is that it's dead straight and it stays that way forever... I'm not sure how straight your lvls will be? Remember - the table ideally should be perfectly flat. Get it right and you'll have no fairing to do on any of your panels that you make.
This is why I suggested fairing your table by hand using a giant steel longboard with sandpaper stuck to it and get 2 people either side of the table to sand it down perfectly working diagonally up and down the table. Change angle 90 deg and work it again...
The table will take you a week to build, but that's nothing in the grand scheme of things to get perfect panels every time thereafter...

I took the cheap and nasty option of melamine sheets and it was one of the biggest regrets I have about my entire build... Never again...

 

What do you mean by steel frame exactly?

The lvls are $100 each, the steel studs would cost about 100 total.

 

Oh, and I purchased flexitools that should help with the table build.

A 33" sanding board and a 39" filling board.

When you say bog, what mix do you use? 4:1 balloons and cabosil?

 

Substitute th lvls for RHS steel.... Say 4"x 2" RHS should work nicely... No need for galvanised either, painted is fine.... Glue the MDF on top of these after you have them perfectly true so you get a very flat surface without any waviness from slightly bent timber. Timber might start off straight enough but in 3 years will it all still be the same?

 

Yes bog is a mixture of epoxy and micro balloons and cabosil.

Be careful with the cabosil - it thickens the mixture very quickly as opposed micro balloons.
Lots of cabosil will get you thick mixture quickly and of higher density. Micro balloons will give you a lower density mixture which is much easier to sand when cured. And you can vary the quantity of each to get anything in between. If you plan on sanding anything, avoid high density mixtures as cured high density epoxy is tough as hell.

For your table I would only use micro balloons and no cabosil. Keep adding the balloons until it's the consistency of mayonnaise. Use a long straight edge peice of aluminium angle , say 2"x2"x 1/8" as a screed. Dollop it down and spread it roughly with a trowel, then use the angle to screed it around and get it as flat as you can. Work in sections and keep moving down the table as you go so you only leave a thin layer on the surface. As the surface will already be very flat, this is only being done to seal the otherwise porous nature of the MDF. We are making it hard and durable. What we don't want it to leave too much on the surface and introduce unfairness by doing this. So only leave a minimal amount behind- most of it will seep into the surface and it will end up looking like you've painted it with varnish or similar....

You may only need 1 coat like this before moving onto the high build primer stage. If the surface still looks porous after you've sanded it, I'd do another coat to be sure.
Then it's paint, longboard, paint, longboard, paint, scuff, paint final durable coating. You'll need all your painting euipment for this too. I found a pressure pot system works best for boat building as you can paint everything from thick high builds down to thin finish coats by adjusting the pot pressure. You can also use the gun upside down to get into hard to reach places or overhead etc.

So you'll need a compressor and 10l pressure pot system. Get yourself a decent gun to go with it and 20ft paint hoses. Don't forget the respirator and all that too.

Welcome to boat building,,,, sure you don't wanna buy a used one?

This boat will cost you approx 2000-3000hours of your life and I reckon about $70,000 buy th time it's all fitted out and you've bought everything you need to get it all done