TP52s

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by mighetto, Nov 1, 2004.

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  1. DLackey
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    DLackey Junior Member

    So John,

    Not confirming or disputing what you said but, how the heck did you hear about that? It's priveledged information. Seems it's not anymore eh?
     
  2. mackid068
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    mackid068 Semi-Newbie Posts Often

    Sailor's gossip....
     
  3. sailsmall
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    sailsmall Senior Member

    Hey Frank, why the long silence? Busy with the political campaign? Take a few minutes to type in something stupid so the rest of us have something to laugh about.

    Tell us how you weren't banned from SA for example. Or how the TP52 coming to the South Sound is a conspiracy between east coast oligarchs and evil mid-sized keel boat owners.
     
  4. 101
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    101 Junior Member

    Frank, you know, after all these pages of TP 52 stuff, I still don't have a problem with these boats. If someone wants to spend the money to play hey, that's fine with me. So, I still don't get what your problem with these 52's is. Whats wrong with someone spending the money to go play?

    The other question I have for you is what are these deaths about? I'm surprised that you can get insurance for your boat with a report like this one. What is your take on it? Perhaps it was the boat? Are you thinking operator error? If so, what error was made, I know I don't want to make the same one. You have posted so much it is hard to keep it straight. Can you straighten it all out for me? Much appreciated . . .

    http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407-1.jpg
     
  5. sailsmall
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    sailsmall Senior Member

    I was wondering the same things, 101, so I'm really glad you asked. Another thing I'm confused about is this concept of the Mac26x centerboard as a gybing board or canard. Franks website gives some of the principles, but Frank, do you think you could provide a little more detail. That would be great.
     
  6. Shife
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Shife Anarchist

    Yes, yes, this is good dialog. Hey Frank, could you please touch on the whole water floating on water principle again? I'm still a little foggy on it. Your ideas somehow differ from those I learned in college and from multiple life lessons of the laws of physics. BTW... any comment on my proof that you were banned?
     
  7. sailsmall
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    sailsmall Senior Member

    The study of physics has sure come a long way in the 20 or so years since I graduated. Certainly one needs to stay constantly abreast of the latest concepts to be able to understand anything. For example, what about Frank's observation that having the keel weight right up under, or inside, the hull makes the boat faster? That's either something new or else it was covered in one of the more advanced classes that I didn't take, though I did understand how a figure skater's spin accelerates when she pulls her arms in. Or at least I thought I understood it. Frank, could you explain that one again really slowly so folks like me who are a bit behind the times can follow along? Thanks!
     
  8. mackid068
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    mackid068 Semi-Newbie Posts Often

    Frank must be some kind of expert! It's REVOLUTIONARY! It's the FUTURE OF YACHT DESIGN! *COUGH* *SNICKER*
     
  9. mighetto
    Joined: Nov 2004
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    mighetto New Member

    Lets chat about the missing 30 pumpkins. Spys tell me Oh My God had rudder problems and hence the pumpkins could not make it to Longbranch. Did they turn up at Maggie's. SA still lists me as a valid member. Get over it. Sad how SA has become a **** site. How stupid is that. Lets try this one out and see if there can be some rational discussion. Laughing about the Bush administration for hours on Sunday at Longbranch was horrofying:)

    Weight distribution is important to the speed a vessel can achieve. For the fastest speed while motoring, weight should be low and to the centerline. Think like a motorcycle rider or an ice skater to see this. It is easily observed on a speedboat by having crew sit at different positions during runs at wide open throttle (WOT) and noting speed by GPS.

    The notion that low freeboard sailboats are faster than similar sized higher freeboard competitors is supported by this weight distribution observation. Crew with no place to be except low in the boat allows greater speed.

    Today craft such as the F/A-22 are redefining aircraft by moving missiles and fuel internally rather than beneath the wings. This gives them low aerodynamic drag allowing less fuel use. It has yet to be shown that bulb keels are desirable. In fact Ted Brewer and Bill Luders showed 40 years ago that they were not and Brewer still believes bulbs are foolish.
     
  10. member 10795
    Joined: Sep 2005
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    member 10795 Sensei

    No, it just means that at one time you were a valid member. It is not surprising that you are as clueless about that as you are about sailing.

    Of course, a comparison to aircraft totally ignores one of the most desireable aspects of a bulb keel - getting the weight as low as possible to maximize the lowering of the CG. And considering the amount of effort spent in model tests and CFD analysis on bulb keels, combined with success in racing (something that you have no familiarity with), only an idiot could come to the conclusion that "it has yet to be shown".

    So, when are you going to admit you were kicked out of SA?
     
  11. TP 52 Defender
    Joined: Dec 2004
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    Location: USA, EU, AUS & NZ

    TP 52 Defender Actual Sailor

    “Weight distribution is important to the speed a vessel can achieve. For the fastest speed while motoring, weight should be low and to the centerline. Think like a motorcycle rider or an ice skater to see this. It is easily observed on a speedboat by having crew sit at different positions during runs at wide open throttle (WOT) and noting speed by GPS.”

    - Bad analogy, as righting moment is not needed to balance force in either example.

    - As to SA if your point is true and not just an oversight its simple share your knowledge with us over there as well.
     
  12. mighetto
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    mighetto New Member

    We are just going to have to disagree on the SA thing. I appear to have free access as do the hackers who frequent the site making fools of Mr Ed. But these hackers apparently can not remove notations about valid memberships. May they retire on the golf course - which is where racing sailors go when they are done with sailing;)

    I think comparison to aircraft is the Future of Yacht design. In the past designers compared yachts to houses. Regarding success in racing, it is well known that multi hulls are more successful than monohulls with bulb keels, (something you must have familiarity with). Only the keel boat trained can come to the conclusion that a bulb on a keel has been shown to be fast. These contraptions are artifacts of the box rules IMO. Do you really disagree? I mean why do you want to dangle a ******** on an otherwise lovely lady. This is especially perplexing given the fact that water ballast can be used internally when conditions favor more weight. You dangle that ******** in all conditions. It just is not fast in light air and in heavy weather it makes the fin unstable.

    We did not fly the SA flag while observing the 17 big boats north of Shilshole. We flew the SSSS burgee and had a short discussion with the support boat operators. The big boat events use crew not only as compensation for poor design, meaning not enough internal ballast and no water ballast (though this will change) but also as spectators. In other words if you want to just watch you just crew. Crew on these boats are a combination of design flaw compensation and spectator.

    Performance Sailing tonight. We will be watching the PHRF dirctors try to twist the RRS. Ha Ha. ;) Note Smiley. We will also prepare for the Squaxin Island race and the weather prediction looks brutal. I noted with some interest how the big boat race course was selected for the mildest conditions possible last Saturday. We saw the start of the short course that day. No photos however. I regret that.

    No pranks this year. One of my crew had suggested 52 feet of Toilet Paper as in TP52 would be appropriate. If we get one of these ships for fools in South Puget Sound, I suppose there is a plan. An evil conspiracy;) Actually the conspiracy is to dump these obsolete race boats into communities who might be fooled into supporting them. They do nothing but turn sailors into golfers. Hey I like the new real sailboat emphasis on SA. J24 sponsorship. Not bad.

    Frank Mighetto
    Mac26x Murrelet
    Olympia WA
    Sail 79020
     
  13. marshmat
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    marshmat Senior Member

    To Mighetto and all who have been ranting against him,

    I would like to respectfully tell the lot of you to smarten up and sod off.

    There are several posters in this thread who, by the forum's records, have contributed nothing to this site except for Frank-bashing. It is easy to identify who these people are, and as a result their credibility among the forum membership is significantly lower than it would otherwise be.

    I have not met, nor am I likely to meet, Frank. But I must point out that outspoken and occasionally disagreeable though he may be, he has behaved in a far more civilized manner here than most of those who bash him. http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/index.php?act=members confirms that three "mighetto" usernames are members at the Sailing Anarchy site, and one profile matches his here, so that matter is now resolved.
     
  14. sailsmall
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    sailsmall Senior Member

    Frank, if you're not banned from SA, then post there and put an end to this discussion. Of course, you were BANNED, so you will never post there. But you won't admit it either, so the discussion will go on.

    Comparing sailboat design to airplane design the way you do is a wonderful demonstration of your complete ignorance of the basic principles. Airplanes use vertical lift to fly through the air propelled by engines. Sailboats float at the interface of air and water, propelled by horizontal lift in one medium, using horizontal lift in the other medium to resist sideways forces, and a combination of form and weight distribution to achieve stability. You simply don't understand the differences between these two systems. Are you too intellectually lazy to learn? Do you have a learning disability that prevents your understanding? Are you just pulling our leg?

    In deference to Matt's sensitivity, I'll refrain for the time being from using the simple one word descriptions of your personality that you might possibly be able to comprehend.
     

  15. Shife
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Shife Anarchist

    Sorry marshmat, but Frank was banned. I have posted a direct quote from the owner of SA stating such. The member names of the few who have been banned from there are still listed in the member list, which means absolutely nothing. As far as Frank behaving in a civilized manner: If you feel that outright lies and slander at those you are jealous of is civilized, well then, by all means he is civilized.
     
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