To flag or not to flag...Is this sailboat dangerous?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by souljour2000, Nov 21, 2010.

  1. souljour2000
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: SW Florida

    souljour2000 Senior Member

    A fellow on the west coast of Florida has been trying to sell this sailboat for awhile now on Craigslist. I have glanced at it a few times over the last few months without ever realizing until now that there seems to be absolutely no support mechanism for the mast compression loads...now that the seller has removed the bulkheads to make "room" for camping... which I believe were compression bulkheads.

    It appears to be deck-stepped with no compression post inside..just the vestigial bulkheads that are now headboards of new beds it seems...If so..I am wondering if I am being nit-picky or really should be concerned enough as a bystander to to "red flag" this boat in Craigslist if it is dangerous to anyone that might buy it since the cabin could very conceivably collapse under a high compression load despite it's fairly sturdy looks...

    Am I being a busy-body? Is this much ado about nothing??:confused:

    Boat design.net to the rescue...!!! What do you guys think? Hard to tell from the picture...there could be a post I guess...where though..can't tell if the view in the pic in question is forward or to aft really...If no post then seems dangerous to a potential novice buyer (what isnt that's any fun but I digress) well....To Flag or not to Flag? If you guys agree it is a danger I would actually contact the guy by email first ,,,and explain the safety issues...and ask that it be removed until he has repaired it sufficiently...

    http://sarasota.craigslist.org/boa/2071856947.html
     
  2. RHough
    Joined: Nov 2005
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    Location: BC Summers / Nayarit Winters

    RHough Retro Dude

    Yes, you are a busy-body. :p

    45 year old 25' boat, $2500. Needs top paint and complete bottom job, painting and all ..? That is as close to nothing as it gets. :(

    Of course it is unsafe. Someone will buy it anyway. $2500 boats don't get a full survey and sea trial before purchase. The new owner might find this forum, ask a bunch of questions, then argue with anyone that tells them it will take 4 times what the boat cost to return it to sailing condition.

    Maybe the cabin top will collapse and the rig will go overboard before we spend $500,000 on a SAR mission to find the remains.

    My first boat was even worse, but I found the flaws and fixed them before I became a statistic. We can hope the buyer of this gem will have the same luck.

    R
     
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  3. souljour2000
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: SW Florida

    souljour2000 Senior Member

    Yeah..its now an eggshell I think...hate to be in there though if that 45 year old unsupported fiberglass goes...and a mast comes shooting into the scene...not likely with the fairly small looking sailplan though..and the tendency for thickness in everything back then but... I am no NA...even if I was..you'd likely have to see the boat in question close up..still seemed a bit disconcerting to me...and it beats the normal nagging worries...the economy, the spectre of a possible Palin Presidency in 2012, the apocalypse and so forth...
     
  4. cthippo
    Joined: Sep 2010
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    Location: Bellingham WA

    cthippo Senior Member

    On the plus side, the motor is probably worth that and I wouldn't mind having the foresails for my 22 footer.
     
  5. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Do the prospective buyers a favor and cut the head stay or better yet climb aboard and crank down the headstay until the turnbuckle bottoms. If the cabin roof hasn't a hole in it yet (those Westerly's where pretty touch) then crank down on the aft stay.
     
  6. Stumble
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: New Orleans

    Stumble Senior Member

    Par may remember, but as far as I can tell (photoes from two other sisterships) the boats were built without compression posts. If thats the case then it shouldn't be a problem.
     
  7. souljour2000
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: SW Florida

    souljour2000 Senior Member

    :p


    PAR...three words...okay four...I love you man....:p
     
  8. Perm Stress
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    Location: Lithuania

    Perm Stress Senior Member

    "It appears to be deck-stepped with no compression post inside..just the vestigial bulkheads that are now headboards of new beds it seems..."

    On boat this small compression post is not allways necessary. Many boats exist with just powerful beam under the mast, connected to bulkheads port & starboard. Or something similar.
     
  9. tom28571
    Joined: Dec 2001
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    Perhaps you guys are seeing something in the photos that I do not. How do we know that there is no support beam under the mast? Are there partial bulkheads on the side taking the load of a beam? I don't see any of that but it could still be there. If there are none of the above, the boat is in trouble. My first keelboat, an Alberg 30, had such construction and was a very strong boat.
     
  10. souljour2000
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: SW Florida

    souljour2000 Senior Member

    Hmm..maybe someone with firsthand knowledge of the Westerly 25 can help us out...sounds like PAR knows that boat a bit though and has spoken..,,anyone down in my neck of the woods up for some latenight skull-duggery and forestay sabotage?:p
     
  11. souljour2000
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: SW Florida

    souljour2000 Senior Member

    Tom...In all seriousness you may be right,....it might be a beam- on -shoulders type of partial bulkhead arrangement..if not..I have found a motley crew to help me cut the forestay...they are not local though so that's a problem....and TSA is going to search those turbans...curses...foiled again!...arrgh...no offense Doug!
     

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  12. souljour2000
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: SW Florida

    souljour2000 Senior Member

    Okay..I found a link to another one that was for sale...pictures of interior are at bottom of the ad if you scroll down...looks heavily built...looks like a partial bulhead,,, built up truss-like shoulders at least...bilge keeler this one is it says..nice boat really...shouldn't be a problem I guess

    http://www.planetmic.com/orbit/au.htm
     
  13. Crag Cay
    Joined: May 2006
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    Location: UK

    Crag Cay Senior Member

    The Westerley 25 did not originally have a bulkhead. It was one of the distinctive features of its bigger sister, the Westerly 30 in 1966 (?), that it had a full main bulkhead.

    Westerly's have a very active class association where you can get informed opinion about their boats rather than the silliness found here.

    westerly25.jpeg
     
  14. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The Westerley 25 was built pretty tough and had model run changes to the step area. Originally, it had a piece of plywood in a quite heavy layup on the cabin roof. This was changed twice by my notes once to have hanging knees and again to incorporate a beam under the plywood. I'm not sure which came first, nor how effective it was, but deck cap the laminate is heavy. All came with a split bulkhead that took compression loads from the roof to the hull shell. It all depends on "which" Westerley 25 you have and the era it was built. The one shown in the Craig's List ad looks to be a "Windrush" built by Westerley.
     

  15. souljour2000
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: SW Florida

    souljour2000 Senior Member

    Interesting PAR..thanks for your expertise as always...hopefully not too "silly" an exploration for all of us...nothing silly about safety afterall...excepting the TSA...afterall..many of us can only afford boats with this type of size and structural lay-up and I don't blame the guy for trying to find ways to make more room... I ain't afraid to ask the" dumb question" I guess and attempting to get an education in here like most of the rest of us I hope...btw..if this is a" bilge keeler" with twin keels this is truly a desirable boat as not many pop up on the market down here...
     
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