the steamless steam engine

I figured that it would probably do something. I cant do it now but its now on the project list.

 

build a really small one as its bound to eat a lot of steam

thing is I have enough copper floating around here to do one myself
nice idea Ranger

Yogi out

 

the diesels in the elco 57 flat top rebuild were 6BT5.9-m
at 1400 rpm had 134 hp and ate 2.7 gallons pr hour

Sounds like someone looked at the HP available graph , and the fuel consumption that the propeller (as usual set to pull max rated rpm) would require at the same engine speed.

2.7 gph is probably 55hp or so.

FF

 

Boston,

Given your rather broad def of 'carbon neutral', a diesel running on a veggie oil source is 'carbon neutral' and will actually emit less carbon and everything else than any steam except for maybe a turbine. So why not just go diesel with bio sourced fuel?

Jimbo

 

I think he wants the nostalgic part of a steam engine but the economical part of today. If you have a steam engine you will realise the reason for wanting a steam boat, there is just something about them.

Water and wood are VERY easy to come by, I'm not sure about used veggie oil.

 

while I appreciate the good intentions behind the suggestion Jim, Id think the availability and cost of pellets is quite stable, where as the cost and availability of diesel or bio diesel is tentative at best, also the ability to make my own is key with the unit to make pellets being about the size of a small generator and able to pound out 600 lb/hr using only wood chips, saw dust, tree trimmings, yard waste, corn stalks, there are countless types of options for making ones own pellets. making bio diesel is a bit more involved and the equipment more space consuming, also the availability is poor, I wonder if biodiesel has a life span like diesel.

pellets need only be kept dry and they will last forever in the hold

the steam engine definitely has a nostalgia aspect to it but its more than that
its silence while we steam along listening to Mozart
its the gently smell of wood smoke while Im on the back deck grilling up some buffalo and vegetables for the guests
instead of that obnoxious diesel smell
or the smell of stale french fries so commonly associated with bio diesel
and that dull droning sound

there is also the cost
the steam engine is simple has few moving parts and having build the sucker I can fix it at the drop of a hat ( and may need to ) the number of parts is less and what parts there are in the rotating assembly are from common sources not custom.

a diesel requires far more maintenance than the steam engine and is good for x number of hours. A properly maintained steam engine can last a hundred years and there are many examples of steam engines out there that have done exactly that

I want this thing to be serviceable, something I can always fix myself without to many special tools or set ups. I want it to outlive me by far and when the day arrives for me to get off the water Im going to give it to someone hoping they keep it going. I have no use in selling it off but if I find some kid at the dock who just loves all the carvings and bright work on that old steamer.
that kid might just wake up one day and find himself owning it
with one stipulation

he pass it on

 

Like you said steamers last for ever, mainly due to the low RPM and overall robust building techniques becuase of the amount of torque produced.

I was going to say that biodiesel wasnt easily avaiable but If i said it someone would correct me. Just my luck.

I like steam engines and how they work, just the moving parts in silence make it much eaiser to concentrate on how it works.

Also, if there is some sort of sound you know there is something wrong. Diesels may drown out the sound.

 

well Jim had it down when he said that biodiesel is more co2 neutral
basically the shorter the growing cycle of a photosynthesizing fuel source the more carbon friendly it is

another thing about steam is its regenerative
it only needs to be cooled to 99C to condense it at which temp it can be sent through the boiler again

I dont think bio diesel is all that available but I do know that it voids the warranty on car and truck engines
Ill bet its use would void the warranty on those Cumins diesels to
course they may have changed that since I last heard

 

You burn wood, the carbon is emmited. The plants take the carbon and make a tree. The tree is used for fuel, simple.

Is there a way to use salt water in the boiler?

 

no, there is a scaling issue in all mono tube boilers and it would eat the engine. Distilled water in a closed loop system with oil added is the way to fly, given the longevity of the engine it will facilitate, and the ease of maintenance, which is nearly none.

 

Does Harry Schoell's cyclone engine improve on other steam engines?
http://www.cyclonepower.com/works.html
(website compares it to internal combustion engines, but it's a steam engine, yes?)

 

Boston, if you are going to size up a tesla turbine, you should check out the yahoo group concerning them.
There are some rather interesting modifications which are reported to increase torque and power by a whole lot, compared to tesla´s specimen.
Like, 50kw from a 8"x6"(?) turbine.

Stephen, Cyclone engine is rather compact and efficient partly due to the high pressure, its somewhat unique tube boiler and its heat recovery systems. Its plate condenser in the crank case is unique I think, and seems very compact and shifts heat from exhaust steam to burner air. By means of some secret voodoo he has managed to lube the entire engine by water only. No oil is used. The whole thing, including boiler and condenser is small and light enough that it is probably comparable to everyday auto IC engines, especially due to not needing transmission. Very simple, few parts, omni fuel and no Nox due to burning at atmospheric pressure.

Ranger, you would have to make a boiler from some untraditional material. However I don´t see the point. Distill the water and reuse it.

When considering for instance I.C. and steam for omni fuels, don´t forget the
gasifiers, which makes it possible to run a gasoline engine on wood and other solids. That said, I´m sceptical that I.C. has any benefits over evolved steam piston engines, for boats - except availability, and if very high power/weight is a concern. I saw an efficiency figure of 40-60% for diesels up here - I´m not buying that just so easily. What is the efficiency of a decent yacht diesel, and at what % power?

 

It looks a bit like a steam ejector but apparently with some magic to make it more efficient than propellers.
Ejectors are used as pumps, but they are horribly noisy and inefficient compared to almost any other type of pump. You would find them as agitators/mixers, in some steam boilers as circulator pumps, and for pumping liquids with lots of solids in it.

The ejectors are based on the speed of the steam from a nossle, the quote mentions that the steam condenses which makes shock waves which propels the water, so maybe it is a different principle.

 

The most efficient marine Diesels today are the largest ones, about 100.000hp with a tad over 50%. The average yacht Diesel is still in the 30 something ballpark.

This Rankine cycle engine is a very interesting development and when the lubrication does function as claimed, it may have some future.

The main advantage, besides overall efficiency is the fact, that you must not remove lubricant from the condenser, which wastes a hell of a lot of the energy content.

But lets wait how that comes out, I am very keen in that idea.

Regards
Richard

 

Hi apex, I was not aware that oil separation from the condensate took a lot of energy. I have seen many different solutions, for instance a centrifuge after the condenser, it was a small item of 8"(?) diameter by 3"(?), spun at a few hundred rpm at a guess. How this would suck a lot of energy, I have no idea. Less than a hundred watt I presume.

Another tried way is that you remove it by gravity in a stand pipe (lamont tube) of a tube boiler. Water from the economizer is sent to this tube, oil is removed by overflow, and water is then sent to the generator coils and back. Steam to the superheater is sent from the top of the stand pipe.

As far as I have understood it, it is not critical to remove all traces of oil from the water, and it is much more of a problem in the superheater than in the generator coils (which contain mostly water), due to the heat and thus carbon deposits in the tube.