The roll acceleration: What´s the best for crossing oceans?

Discussion in 'Stability' started by Antonio Alcalá, Dec 18, 2007.

  1. David Roberts
    Joined: Jan 2009
    Posts: 3
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Everett, WA

    David Roberts Nexus

    Thank you for your useful reply.

    One can get sick in all types of boats. My planing designs seem to have good motion on the open sea, reasonably comfortable. Perhaps the relatively short roll period helps with this. It is certainly a long way from the natural period of decent sized swells.

    Yes, sorry. Period in seconds, WLB in meters.

    From http://ittc.sname.org/2006_recomm_proc/7.5-02-07-04.1.pdf
    and
    http://www.naoe.eng.osaka-u.ac.jp/ittc-stability/umeda/7.5-02-07-02.5.doc
    "In the absence of more accurate knowledge a value of 0.40B for the roll radius of gyration and 0.25L for both the pitch and yaw radii of gyration are recommended."

    In any case, we have equations linking three variables, k, GM, and roll period. In any of our designs, we can calculate GM, measure roll period, and calculate k. Perhaps you could give us k's from some of your designs. Mr. Gerr seems to think it not an obstacle, given that we are really interested in values to one significant digit.

    I haven't measured roll periods on any of my designs. Perhaps I shall start doing so. Using Mr. Gerr's formula, they all should have roll periods of between 1.5 and 2.5 seconds. As I said before, a little quicker than optimum, but so what. Interestingly, offshore fishermen report a greater chance of seasickness with deep-V hulls, which have a lower GM and thus slower roll than my designs.

    FWIW, my small planing craft have Brewer CR values of from 13 to 25, mostly depending on size. The larger craft of course have a more pleasant motion in a wind chop, but I don't notice any great difference w/r to ordinary ocean swells, though of course larger vessels will be able to withstand heavier weather.
     
  2. TeddyDiver
    Joined: Dec 2007
    Posts: 2,564
    Likes: 113, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1650
    Location: Finland/Norway

    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    Wide hull forms, like most of the planning type (and especially all multihulls), tend to roll with the wave slopes, not with their own frequency. So in this regard it's a bit pointless to calculate the roll periods.
     
  3. divinesd
    Joined: Jan 2009
    Posts: 11
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Divine service & design, Rotterdam, Holland

    divinesd Divine service & design

    Most of the time we use: Non-dimensional damping factor Roll: 0.062
    But it is all depanding on so many things.
     
  4. robherc
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 432
    Likes: 5, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 102
    Location: US/TX

    robherc Designer/Hobbyist


    Thank You SOOO much. As I'm still quite new to these forums, I did not know about/how tu sue that functionality.
    Now this thread has (magically) become quite a bit more readable, and I don't have to worry about accidentally reading something Paul B said & believing it as fact. I'd REALLY hate to remember one of his comments later in a design, forget who said it, and end up getting free (involuntary) swimming lessons in the middle of the Atlantic for believing him!
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. julleras
    Joined: Sep 2004
    Posts: 16
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Bogotá, Colombia

    julleras Junior Member

    David:

    The formula given by Gerr is that if your boat falls between those to figures the boat will have 'maximum confort and safety'. WLB should be in mts. ('The nature of boats', pg.115)
     
  6. David Roberts
    Joined: Jan 2009
    Posts: 3
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Everett, WA

    David Roberts Nexus

    Yes, thank you. I thought that this thread might be interested in this opinion by someone of Mr. Gerr's stature. Thank you for your further explanation. I don't have that text.
     
  7. Antonio Alcalá
    Joined: Nov 2006
    Posts: 92
    Likes: 3, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 45
    Location: Portugal

    Antonio Alcalá Ocean Yachtmaster

    Up, the summer is close to us!!!!
     
  8. Guillermo
    Joined: Mar 2005
    Posts: 3,644
    Likes: 185, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2247
    Location: Pontevedra, Spain

    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    Depends on the hemisphere....:)
    Anyway: Ready for it, having been weekend-sailing the whole year round in our wonderful Rías :) :)

    All the best.
     
  9. Antonio Alcalá
    Joined: Nov 2006
    Posts: 92
    Likes: 3, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 45
    Location: Portugal

    Antonio Alcalá Ocean Yachtmaster

    jajajjajajajjajaj i´m back mate!!!
     
  10. Patrick BLOSSE
    Joined: Mar 2007
    Posts: 44
    Likes: 4, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 70
    Location: PARIS, FRANCE

    Patrick BLOSSE La Terre entière.

    Hi to all,

    Thanks to all for that amount...
    leading to safety and confort ratios to be experimented, and improved

    Kindly.

    Patrick BLOSSE
     
  11. Wavewacker
    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 696
    Likes: 21, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 226
    Location: Springfield, Mo.

    Wavewacker Senior Member

    I was attempting to apply this information in the selection of a boat. I'm seeing that some believe it's meaninless, applied to those that may be prone to sea sickness and as an expectation of a level of comfort that is not so well defined.

    I did ask about it with respect to a specific boat but that fell without response, so, is a rating of 24.48 good? Is it even something to consider?
     
  12. Guillermo
    Joined: Mar 2005
    Posts: 3,644
    Likes: 185, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2247
    Location: Pontevedra, Spain

    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

  13. Wavewacker
    Joined: Aug 2010
    Posts: 696
    Likes: 21, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 226
    Location: Springfield, Mo.

    Wavewacker Senior Member

    Sorry, I can't down load pdf on a notebook, the screen doesn't go down far enough to accept the terms:mad:

    Any brief comment on the MCR being appropriate in the selection of a boat?
     
  14. Guillermo
    Joined: Mar 2005
    Posts: 3,644
    Likes: 185, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2247
    Location: Pontevedra, Spain

    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    As a rule of thumb, compare the MCR of the intended boat against the MCRs of several other boats of +/- the same LOA. The higher for the size, the better.

    As an approximation and following the graph in Eric Sponberg's document, it is recommended that for average comfort the ratio MCR/LOA(ft) should be between 5/8 and 5/6, and for greater comfort it should be over 5/6

    But be careful: If within the "greater comfort" zone, a boat under 35-40 ft would be what Sponberg calls a "lead sled", so very heavy and slow.

    Cheers.
     

  15. goodwilltoall
    Joined: Jul 2010
    Posts: 815
    Likes: 20, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 31
    Location: nation of Ohio

    goodwilltoall Senior Member

    MCR is bunk just like the inventor of it claims, although faintly for notoriety it gives him. Giving tp52 a 16.0 ratio and catalina 27 a better 26.0 ratio is a double witness that its nonsense.

    Any ratio should use optimum b-l ratio of 6-1, both for overall sizes as well as waterline. Why did he go with 70-30% ratio as the optimum for LAO vs LWL? Then claiming it gives more bouyancy when if you just add LWL you automatically get additional bouyancy. Why isnt the ratio 95-5% then or taking aesthethics aside, 100-0%.

    Additional displacement helps comfort. If designing new and you desire more comfort, weigh the overall costs of heavier/slower boat, and as an example then figure: your boat hull scantlings call for 1" coldmolded hull- readjust the water lines for 1.5", this will spread the weight around and make it more seakindly, that much more stronger, and more comfortable for state of mind as well.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.