The perfect Passagemaker? (style within this genre)

You see, I dont know it all.

And I agree, it is nice and on topic to discuss lifeboats, because they sure make capable cruisers, but they don´t fit the design brief, and range was never part of their requirements, so, they are not good passagemakers, quite the opposite!

But what they are, a perfect example how much even the interested members like Milan understand about sailing the oceans, nearly nothing.
Assuming that such a safe vessel is all you need to circumnavigate is common belief amongst the amateurs worldwide. That makes them all available for pennies after a while in private ownership.

Thanks Yipster, have not seen your post before...........

Regards
Richard

 

Yet, I very much wanted to see you build like your original workboat design. I voted for the North Sea Trawler for its looks but if I were to get a boat, any boat, The workboat one you designed. It is distinct enuf from anything else, I believe that there is marketing potential in that alone. Who wudn't feel good in a boat like that!? G'nite.

 

Sure, the Supply vessel style has some merits, but would be a bit less economical than our favourite three, and being about 30m LOA that is not surprising.

She is still not out of sight, and when I find a client to build her, I would do. (regardless of the pain coming up)
She would btw. not come out more expensive than the Gentlemans yacht when workboat finish on the hull and super is accepted.

 

hmm, some strange sort of humor you have apex
probably never heard of the poor mans jaguar
dont want to know things like this eighter
so i'm wondering how you come to saying economic
yet good luck to you, as said, i'm outta this tread

 

Did not go out of business - was bought 2001 by the Luerssen Group, now operating as Luerssen Bardenfleth and still building SAR units.

 

You are not informed correctly. They went out of business, then were taken over by Lürssen.
And actually Fassmer is building the SAR boats in Germany. The Schweers yard does as all other Lürssen branches parts of the navy and megayacht business.

 

I don´t understand what you call strange humour? Is there a "poor mans" Jet plane on the market?
The desire to have something, is one thing, the ability to buy and operate it is another animal.
Nobody expects to get a Jet plane at discount prices, and nobody expects he could afford running expenses if the budget is tight.
So, how does one expect to buy and operate a expensive toy (which it is by nature), for less than the range we are actually talkng here? (included the smaller vessels, we added later)

Why the insulting comment "I don´t want to know" ???

I know multihulls and I do not, and never, build them, for many good reasons which are not discussed here!

How can you argue these designs are not economic?
They are in fact the most economic motoryachts the world can think of at present!
Though I understand, that a consumption of 30 Ltr/hr is not what some people call cheap or can afford. But then, buy a runabout and not a 25 meter yacht capable of worldwide cruising! A comparable dock queen that size would consume from 130 Ltr/hr upwards, but nobody is argueing that.

It is insane what you and some others are trying to do here, and it really pisses me off!

We discuss vessels far above average capabilities, at far below average cost, but of course high purchase prices, and you come here and ***** about economy.
A merchant ship with a reduced fuel consumption by just 5% is called economical, but still guzzles 200 tonnes a day, do you argue with that too?

These craft are not "cheap", no doubt. NO boat of that size is cheap, but these are much, much cheaper to operate and maintain, than the average plastic crap sitting in the marinas, and they can circumnavigate safely, what the plastic crap cannot.

So, go and argue with the owners of these Gin palaces, before argueing here!

Bye, bye

 

Well, then you now better than the owners and the company register - look it up under AG Oldenburg HRB 100015

… and again better than the German SAR service, who list quite a few of their units as built by Luerssen Bardenfleth, like ELLI HOFFMANN-ROESER built in 2004

 

... + 1

 

Sure I know better,

I know Schweers yard and Peter Lürssen. Questions?

ACTUALLY I said! DGzRS is building with Fassmer at present, not Lürssen and not A&R which did many of the SAR boats too.

Knowledge is a strange thing isn´t it? Insider knowledge is the better, you know?

And bye bye too, I am not missing you.
In fact nobody will miss you, because you did not contribute with one single post since you signed up, but try to hijack this thread with all posts but one! Dead sure, that was the reason you signed up here under a different user name!

 

Richard you are very right here
I represent at least 20 of my regular "boating" buddies who are well within the target market and they also represent 20 of their buddies

I also must add that there are most definately a couple of guys amongst them that could easily afford this boat (2mil Euro) and in my country they are looking at this as an escape island of thier own and also a way of getting money out

So your research is much more valuable than what meets the eye at first.

 

Thank you Manie!

Of course I did not know about your buddies and their desires or opinions, but what I know for sure is that we have a hughe market for these types of boats. Much more tomorrow than today.
And sure I know what I am doing when I ask here, and not at the boat shows. The results I would get there are far less representative than here.

To the boats.
The North Sea Trawler for example would make a perfect liveaboard for a whole family without stretching the monthly budget for maintenance and fuelling. And being substantially bigger than Tad´s PML 74 (by volume) it would be almost a bargain, given, that a "workboat" finish of the hull and superstructure is accepted. Not being executed to a lower quality, just not faired smooth like a baby bum, and not painted like a piano. The money invested in all commercial equipment instead.
From fuel polishing through Furuno electronics to massively insulated food storage (all classed and approved by GL for unrestricted operation).
It will be slower than the PML sure, but as economic to operate.
And having a jury rig, it provides at least a little bit of the fun sailing gives us, and has a coming home propulsion.



Tad´s Passagemaker light (PML) at 74ft is the same LOA but just 60% the weight, and far less volume (storage, accommodation) but roughly the same price.
It brings all one couple needs, when cruising with two children, or really just occasional guests, is the goal.
The boat has the lowest consumption per hr / mile of all boats we discuss here, but the highest consumption per m² of space provided.
Following the original sketches it will come with a jury rigg as well, and skimp on river and canal cruises (which isn´t a good idea anyway, either, or)



Now the so named Gentlemans yacht.

At some 25 m Loa she is the largest and heaviest of the three vessels and has of course the largest accommodation and storage space and the highest consumption.
But, surprising enough, she will be the most economical of the three, when we compare annual cost for the same mileage, and count for the provided space! That will be even more impressive when we count for engine lifetime cost.
Although both of the smaller boats are already planned with very reliable and long lasting propulsion, this one is a class in its own. 45.000hrs TBO is a figure one has to chew twice to get the meaning.
And she will be the most capable one of them in harsh conditions, going faster in severe conditions than her siblings.
This comes not for free of course, therefore she will be about 50% above the price of the others.



So then Mates,
pick your poison, and send the orders one by one please, don´t hasten!

Regards
Richard

 

Manie is absolutely right.
Going offshore for long period of time, safe in every possible condition is not for the faint hearted.
It take balls and money.
Now you can do it economically, regarding not in comparison of the salary of a janitor,(and I feel free to say that, my salary is lower than that) but in comparison of different methodology to do it.
This is the difference.
That understood, the rest is extremely interresting and can ends up with a vessel that can be used for many serious purpose been a very all around friendly ship. When I mean friendly ship, its a ship that take care of its crew in serious condition.
From yacht to research vessel, university offshore program, and perhaps also a very good contender for the kite people to check to scale down their system. Since the vessel will have the general motion (Greena, don't forget) of a heavy ship, it will be the perfect platform for them to try.
The sky the limit, based on an honest and robust platform.
The style come naturally for the yacht purpose, I think, and it is the Fairmile style.

 

True - a boat show may be no more representative of a passagemaker market than a design forum....
I'm not for a moment suggesting there isn't a market for this vessel - I believe there is - but it will be a niche market, not one for the wealthy masses.
You (we) may not have much admiration for the current crop of production passagemakers, but you can't argue with their market place success. And whilst the great majority spend little time crossing oceans, quite a number do. And of course, this has far more to do with owner ability and desire than vessel ability.
This isn't in any way a criticism of the proposed vessel - just my take on its market position....

 

No need to excuse Will, I understand you quite well and do widely agree with your comments.

The fact that these Chinese built boats (which are still condo´s), have such a success is a clear sign of the market potential. Imagine I build all three boats mentioned above at the estimated prices (needs finetuning of course), then there might be the "serious" part of their prospective buyers gone.

Regards
Richard