The perfect Passagemaker IV, Equipment

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by apex1, Sep 3, 2010.

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Please choose after reading the threads! multiple choice possible.

  1. I need a second Radar

    8 vote(s)
    53.3%
  2. One Radar is enough

    7 vote(s)
    46.7%
  3. A intergrated bridge system would be nice

    10 vote(s)
    66.7%
  4. Inmarsat is a must on passages (how would I post on bd.net?)

    7 vote(s)
    46.7%
  5. I am fine with SSB radio at sea and shouting in port.

    2 vote(s)
    13.3%
  6. A bus system is sensible and desired

    11 vote(s)
    73.3%
  7. Aircondition in all rooms

    6 vote(s)
    40.0%
  8. AC in sleeping quarters only

    5 vote(s)
    33.3%
  9. AC in living quarters only

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  10. Walk in fridge/freeze is a must

    4 vote(s)
    26.7%
  11. A household fridge is enough, I like my beer lukewarm

    6 vote(s)
    40.0%
  12. Hydraulic stabilizers are my choice (for Trawler)

    7 vote(s)
    46.7%
  13. The Trawler does fine with paravanes

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  14. I need a sternthruster

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  15. first forgotten item

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
  16. second

    3 vote(s)
    20.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
    Posts: 2,164
    Likes: 52, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 575
    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

    Would were swin platform meets transom be a good place. It is about 6 feet long by 15 wide and 3 feet above water.
     
  2. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 4,519
    Likes: 109, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1009
    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Individually replaceable battery cells, either Surrette/Rolls of similar in design. With all boat banks using the same cell type so replacements can be carried aboard.


    AS a battery works all the cells age at near the same rate.

    Replacement of ALL the batt cells is needed after the batt is old.

    FF
     
  3. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    No Mate,
    thats one of the worst places if we are still talking passagemaker and not coastal cruiser. The former will from time to time bunker at sea, and you can imagine what that can mean.
    When bunkering takes place always in port, there is nothing to say against that place imho. But I was keen to have a short pipe between the filling cabinet and the tanks, making that position not favourable also.

    Another point I have completely forgotten:

    There were actually three filling pipes on my last vessel! One was for engine oil.

    Not only that Fred,

    his recommendation to have ALL banks of the same type is wrong! Of course one has a separate engine starter bank with cheap starter batteries.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  4. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Or air.
     
  5. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    The Grenaa is air started of course. Even then we need some juice for the genset, and here it can be worth a thought if it is really clever to have a separate starter battery, because the house bank will easily crank the genny.
     
  6. Stumble
    Joined: Oct 2008
    Posts: 1,896
    Likes: 71, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 739
    Location: New Orleans

    Stumble Senior Member

    Ouch I hate it when I let my enthusiasm outrun my ability to read! Either way thanks for the responce Richard. I am glad to see most of my thoughts are redundant :D.

    The one thing I take exception to is not using the same battery cell type for every bank. I like the thought of being able to carry one extra cell on board so that if any cell goes bad you can replace just that one and keep the system operating. Fast Fred is right that it is better to replace the entire bad battery, but that is not always possible 1000miles from the nearest supply point, though it is possible to have one or two extra cells onboard waiting to pop in in case of a problem.

    I would also point out that the starter battery is a good idea I over-simplified. I really like a starting barrery for each engine isolated from the house bank, and capable of jumping each other off. Though again I would go with replacable cell types and just store two types of cells onboard.


    For me it really comes down to this... A passagemaker in my eyes should have as much redundant equipment as reasonable even if it means accepting a more expensive solution. Simply because of the expected use of the vessel. Any boat I don't expece to be more than 100 miles from an airport doesn't need much in the way of redundancy, however if I am planning on doing the inside passage or the south pacific I want to build in the ability to keep the boat working despite significant systems failures.
     
  7. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    There is nothing wrong with having a separate cell on board, of course. But when you have ample juice installed, there is no need to carry that cell for ballast. On a true passagemaker we have to install a top quality high power bank, and I will.

    In this case:
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/bo...r-style-within-genre-34092-19.html#post402405
    we can cut off any broken cell/s and still be fine for another year. With the Victron power management one cannot cook the bank to death, and it is not likely that all of the 2V cells give up at the same time in such bank.
    On this boat there have to be separate starter batteries though.

    The "Gentlemans Yacht" here HAS a redundant system already, being the air starter. There is at least one heavy duty alternator installed on the main, so I am never lost when the house bank gave up.
    Redundancy is nice and valid, but it must not become (expensive) paranoia. Therefore the Yacht will have no starter batteries, but a housebank of about 1600Ah , like the trawler.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  8. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Stumble,

    we have done some calculations for the first one of these boats, the North Sea Trawler.
    The electronics came out as I estimated, and they are Top of the range, and commercial, Furuno class A units .
    You find them here:

    click for Trawler specifications

    I am sure you have a bit more on your personal whishlist.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  9. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 4,519
    Likes: 109, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1009
    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    IF the boat is going to have a complete Hyd system .

    I would start the aux engine with a Hyd motor (lifeboat style equippment OTS)

    Slow but sure, a hand pump can refill a starting accumulator after an EMP or lightning strike.

    Total electric failure should be no hassle for a diesel cruising boat.

    FF
     
  10. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Worth a thought, having a stabilzer already.

    Have you seen the specifications? (link above)

    Regards
    Richard
     
  11. wardd
    Joined: Apr 2009
    Posts: 897
    Likes: 37, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 442
    Location: usa

    wardd Senior Member

    when i was in the service the ch-47 helicopter apu was started by a hydraulic accumulator that was pressurized during normal operation and could be hand pumped to pressurize

    then the apu pressurized the rest of the hydraulic system then the main engines were started
     
  12. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 4,519
    Likes: 109, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1009
    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    To me the biggest problem might be finding a really efficient engine with out electronic injection.

    Now that N Korea , and soon Iran have nukes to loft into Low Earth Orbit the chance of a nuke wiping out EVERYTHING! with a computer does exist.

    Sure a brand new modern diesel may make 10% better efficiency in some conditions , but DEAD IN THE WATER , signing a LLoyds Open salvage form is not ideal cruising.OR cost efficient.

    To get by the buroRATs it might be good form to purchase an ancient hulk , for the numbers and a keel bolt.
    Then send it to the breakers.

    Then the new passagamaker might be considered a rebuilt "old" boat and you could use a pure mechanical diesel, that will happily run with no computer.

    FF
     
  13. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    I don't believe it works like that Fred. The rebuilt boat has to actually be the old boat, rebuilt.
    You know, the "brain" of an electronic engine cud be carried as a spare. The unit injectors wud be a huge problem to replace at sea (plus mine, for example, cost $1,200 each) Do you believe unit injectors to be something killed by lightning/EMP? Is the electronic engine really that vulnerable? In that case, the Grenaa makes even more sense.
     
  14. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Not when the boat is of sufficient "beef" to house one of the medium speed engines. At least at present there are still some very good fully mechanical engines on the market, like the Grenaa or ABC for example.

    You are right Mark, that does not work. We can not build "used" boats legally.

    But we are in the propulsion sector here again, means a bit off topic.
    I know that is not to avoid sometimes.

    Regards
    Richard
     

  15. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
    Posts: 1,374
    Likes: 56, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 746
    Location: Vancouver

    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    Too many mods and you have a "ship of theseus"....that hotrod guy got into deep trouble,doing that with his old VIN but new cars.
     
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