The Future of Formula 40 Trimarans

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Skip JayR, Sep 8, 2015.

  1. Skip JayR
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    Skip JayR Tri Enthusiast

    Another "unknown" Formula 40 in green...

    Hi, folks and F40 friends ! :)

    ... surprise, surprise. I fell over another Formula 40 Trimaran kind. It is not exactly following the F40 measurement, as the beam is "only" 10 meters instead of 12.18 meters (the length of a 40 footer).

    Little bit strange, neither I have any "boat name" nor I have the year it was built :p :rolleyes:

    Only information I have, that it is a design by French naval architect Philippe Cabon (who designed the beautifully 40 Foot Trimaran Felicidade and the 50 Foot tri M'Pulse). The Greeny was built in strip planked sandwich epoxy of total displacement of 3 tons...

    Does anybody know more about this boat ? - Did it race on the regatta courses successfully ? Who was first skipper ?

    I'd be thankfully for some details... maybe someone of you know it. I suppose it sailed in the past under French flag.
    [​IMG]

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    More images as thumbnales in the bottom. For bigger size pls click on each.
     

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  2. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    Well you didn't need to build up to the extremities of the box rule but most of the most competitive racing F40 trimarans did because the light weight negated their righting moment somewhat and to stay powered up they needed to be wide. Biscuits Cantreau 2/Running with Scissors was somewhat undersquare with hiking racks.
     
  3. Skip JayR
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    Skip JayR Tri Enthusiast

    human flesh as righting weight ??

    yeah.... it seems that Philippe Cabon didnt want go to the limits. Personally - just by feeling - I prefer still boats (and Trimarans) with length (little bit) bigger than width. But thats more an esthetically pleasing :) .

    If a racer has bigger benefits by square size, its OK technically. A boat of 12 x 10 m is still of impressive size for any sailor. (Rec.: The basic structure of my rented appartement is 8.5 (l) x 5.5 (w) meters. To imagine a boat of more than double of width is mind blowing coming from land based living.)

    Relevant at all: On high seas, dimensions are all relatively... for the power of big oceans waves and gusts its still a tiny little boat.

    I think, I will ask Philippe directly. He knows best the (hi)story of this "froggy F40" :)

    hm... hicking jacks... that remembers me the Libera Class in Italy you know ? - Mostly the boats are sailing on Garda lake for the legendary Centomiglia Regatta. These racers had been pimped extremly to their limits with "masses of human flesh" as righting weight....

    [​IMG]
     

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  4. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    Shouldn't the top priority be doing some deep research to find out why the F40 class died in the first place? Seahorse had regular articles covering the rise and fall of the class, which give some good information about what happened.

    Secondly, it's hard to see that modern technology is cheaper than '80s technology. What Grainger and Farrier are building boats in is not really relevant since they are not building them for a hotly competitive international class. In the same era that the original F40 class arrived and died, the cost for a competitive mono of the same era increased by about 400% if I recall correctly.

    Development classes in general are struggling these days. Despite the enormous publicity a few of them are creating, the numbers are generally small. The Libera Class monos you pictured earlier are a case in point - there's only about three of them active, including Grifo which is now around 35 years old. For comparison, in Italy where the Libera class came from, two of the strongest and fastest-growing classes are the original Windsurfer (from 0 to 100+ at national titles over the past 7 or so years) and the 1913 designed (ex)-International 12, basically a rowboat with a gaff sail. When people choose to sail such classes instead of modern high performance craft, there must be a message for those trying to create new development classes.

    Development classes are fantastic, but when so many of them are struggling surely a lot of deep study and analysis is required before a successful new one can be created.



    Finally, if kids these days are all wimps then why do they keep on breaking the athletics records set in earlier times?
     
  5. Skip JayR
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    Tks CT249 for your thoughts and impulses. Give me little bit time to answer in details... some of your relevant questions address some seriously issues... and I think one of the big mistakes in the past had been, that as I like to say "too many cooks destroyed the porridge".

    It needs seriously thinking, rethinking and a very professionally way with different toolds and methods - probably a more kind of scientifically approach - if the Formula 40 shall have a new and stable future. Things as they had been done in the 80th cant be handled anymore same way in 21st century.
     
  6. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    I'm not convinced we need a revitalized F40 class we already have Multi50's and they sit squarely in the (relatively) budget offshore racing multihull class. Inshore is well catered for with a number of one design classes including the GC32 catamaran, DIAM24 trimaran, M32 catamaran and a range of off the beach type catamarans.

    If you have the cash you could buy a Multi50 now for about $250,000 and go racing. You wouldn't be competitive with the front of the fleet but you would be competing in the class and with their recently introduced "Classic" division you could potentially do very well.

    I keep hearing about the potential for cheap trimarans to be built but I'm not seeing them a professionally built competitive 40' cruiser/racer trimaran will be very expensive indeed certainly over $500,000 AUD
     
  7. Skip JayR
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    Skip JayR Tri Enthusiast

    The beginning of Formula 40 in the USA...

    Walter Greene designed a Formula 40 for the self builder Jim Godbey... here the datas (design specifications / Source: Wooden Boat Magazine):

    LOA (feet): 40′ 0″
    Beam (feet): 33′ 0″
    LWL (feet): 40′ 0″
    Draft (feet): 2′ 0″
    Former Name 1 (newest): NEWPORT BLUE
    Former Name 2: NAVICO
    Former Name 3: NEW ENGLAND ROPES
    Former Name 4 (oldest): GS-40
    Home Port: Cocoa, FL
    Designer: Walter Greene
    Design or Class: Daggerboard sloop
    Boat Type: Formula 40 Trimaran
    Rig: sloop
    Gross Displacement: 5000
    Sail Area: 1000
    Sail Number: F 40/US 30
    Engine Model: Outboard
    Builder: Jim Godbey
    Location Built: Milton MA
    Year Built: 1986
    Documentation or State Reg. No.: FL 9004 HY
    Owner Name: Mark Donigan
    Yacht Club: U.S.S.C.

    The latest name was "Up my Sleeve". We may ask where the boat is now ? - A very sad answer to give as I mentoined, the latest name "was" as the boat is no more.

    The Walter Greene Trimaran was sailed by Etienne Giroire for the Route De Rhume 2010 under new sponsor name ATNinc.com.
    [​IMG]

    The boat was well known by Etienne:

    [​IMG]

    Etienne even sailed this boat for the OSTAR 2005 (more details in the newsletter of the New England Multihull Association, see attached PDF).

    Unluckily the boat capsized during the Route de Rhume Race 2010. Etienne kept safe in his dry suite being rescued.
    [​IMG]

    Sad, sad, sad to see this yellow beauty dying.... Anyhow... it is very interesting and more important for the future to read and learn from Etienne:

    You can read the fully story here on "The Daily Sail" in May 2011 or on the sponsor's site.
     

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    Last edited: Sep 22, 2015
  8. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    Older boats work fine Skip, You're not supposed to press them as hard. Safety afloat demands sailing within the design parameters of your vessel be it a tri or corracle. Racing tends to make people forget about the envelope.... As foil use increases we'll see ama sizes trending downward again on the racers.
     
  9. Skip JayR
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    Formula 40 or Multi 50...

    Yes, there are out some Multi50, e.g. these two boats... in the range of round 200 Thousand Euros... I suppose you need to invest another 100-150 Thousand to make them real compeitively as the officially listed boats of the French Multi50 Class mostly are sponsor boats (see Arkema or Olmix), well financed and bigger budgets and professionally skippers.

    Nivelt / Irens design.... built 2002 (sales proposal see PDF attachment)
    [​IMG]

    Irens design.... built 1990(sales proposal see PDF attachment)
    [​IMG]

    Refitting costs and maintenance regularly are not linear, they are exponentially related to boat length because of the much heavier loads.

    • Whatt about the running costs for such 50 footers ?
    • Can they be sailed single handed as its possible with the F40 ? Probably not as amateur sailors dont have the physically fitness compared to professional sailing legionaries.
    • And what about safetyness ? Aren't Multi50s more risky ?

    Can a Multi 50 be sailed by amateurs successfully within the Multi50 Class racing circuit ? - I have my doubts about.

    In my understanding the Formula 40 is a good starter project.... after some years if he (the owner/skipper) is still ambitiously sailing and equipped with bigger budgets might target at the Multi50 class. But its a different league in my understanding.
     

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  10. Skip JayR
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    Yes, I agree... thats why I posted it. Sailing such "elder boats" have a different range of security parameters. One must be clear about that.
     
  11. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    Reading the story several things stand out.

    1 Despite your quote describing the risk of such tris stubbing their bow and capsizing the boat sailed over sideways in a straight beam capsize. (What kind of journalism is that?) If he had bigger amas it would have just rotated around the lee ama with a bigger main hull splash presuming the boat would be rigged proportionately.

    2 He describes 2 halyard breaks that taxed him, these were a repeat of a problem not corrected that showed up in 2005.

    These things are operator error, if he knew it was time to deep sleep more sail should have been reduced. A auto sheet release could have prevented the capsize. A bridle and flooded bows could have let the rescue ship right the tri.

    These seem like the important lessons to learn from Etienne.
     
  12. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    Whatever you race if you want to be competitive with the front of the fleet it will be expensive even a beach cat can suck up an eye watering amount of money. Yes a 50' trimaran will be more expensive to run but not massively and a lot of that extra cost depends on how much elbow grease as an owner you are willing to put in. There are plenty of non sponsored boats in the Multi50 class mostly they do the inshore circuit as racing offshore is markedly more expensive with much more stringent safety standards to meet. A couple of examples off the top of my head the lovely "Nootka" and foil assist "Pir2" and the Multi50 catamaran "Delirium". Multi50's are in my view safer as the longer LoA is good for multihull safety the main factor deciding their capsize risk is how hard the skipper is willing to push. In terms of offshore safety the Multi50's have a much lower capsize rate per miles sailed than a MOD70 or ORMA60. Capsizes in the last 10 years have been Lalou Roucayrol twice. Once on his earlier Multi50 trimaran Région Aquitaine - Port-Médoc which was rendered a total loss when one of its floats was crushed.

    http://www.thedailysail.com/offshore/10/57316/0/french-trimaran-capsizes

    Also on Arkema which was recovered successfully with only the mast and sails needing complete replacement:

    http://www.transat-jacques-vabre.com/en/news-flash-multi-50-arkema-region-aquitaine-has-capsized

    If you do have a sponsor the reasonable step would be to go straight into the Multi50 class. With five super competitive and closely matched trimarans at the top you can be assured good, tight competition. FenetreA Prysmian, Actual? Which you would think would be picked up before the Transat Jacques Vabre, the revamped Maitre Jacques/Ciela Village, Rennes Métropole - Saint-Malo Agglomération, Arkema are the Multi50's to beat.

    If you have no sponsor then a 40' trimaran is a good option and more affordable but still a lot of money to part with. Is the cost saving enough to rejuvenate a racing class? I don't think so which is why in my opinion we wont see a reborn Formula 40 trimaran class. The Seacart 30's didn't survive as a class and the express reason for their creation was to address the cost of running a racing trimaran. I'd love see more competition but race boats particularly trimarans are something that don't appeal to many people they are specialized low volume, low payload devices without much cruising comfort or mod cons.

    I'm a rare and special case :) I'm willing to scrounge like mad to make my F40 a reality. I doubt I'll be competitive with a professional team on a sponsored multihull but that doesn't worry me. I just want to own one of these magnificent race boats and building is the only way it's remotely possible financially for me to do it.

    Big floats up to a point are good I'd have some doubts about 300% floats. They are big, ugly and draggy and all that extra surface area comes at a cost in terms of weight and aero drag which necessitates a bigger sail plan to drive the boat and impacts light air performance. The loss of Etienne's boat was very sad particularly when you understand it was a self funded campaign but he did make some errors which in my view increased his risks to an unacceptable level. He concedes as much in the interviews but obviously he was tired and made some poor decisions which contributed.

     
  13. Skip JayR
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    Skip JayR Tri Enthusiast

    Last footages of Trimaran ATNic.com (Walter Greene Formula 40)

    French skipper Etienne gave an interview after the capsizing in English... we even see the last footages of this boat filmed on board the cargo ship which picked up Etienne... and some short sequences this beauty was under sails.

    Walter Greene did a fantastic job... a boat I'd loved to sail... so well balanced trim. Heartbreaking that she is no more.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGYecKZGbk0
     
  14. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    Here is a tattered old study plan, can't figure out why they shortened the amas and went to transoms. Lots more room than Moxie but not huge. Practical though, I like the quarter berths for at sea and the table up for view. The main cabin has the galley and a chart table with a spronk nearby.
     

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  15. Skip JayR
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    Skip JayR Tri Enthusiast

    Keep the focus on the topic pls....

    Why this post here ???? It has nothing to do with the topic (I remember: "The Future of Formula 40 Tris"), jamez and Cavalier.

    Meanwhile within my ongoing researches I have lots of the communication 14-15 years ago was done by some folks about the "revitalisation of the Formula 40" and as I already mentioned before, there are many, many different reasons why the "F40 class" failed.

    In my understanding one reason why the F40 failed is: Loosing focus... sometimes looking back to this time (and following here the discussion in this thread) it feels for me like kidds are talking with big eyes in the candy shop or sitting down writing the long, long, long wish list for the letter to Santa Claus.

    Its good to read the Go Rin No Sho ("The Book of Five Rings") which was written by a Japanese Samurai Musashi and still available in ENG.

    [​IMG]

    One relevant rule there: Do many things in your life... but do one thing at a time and this do 100%.

    Not any project can go like what happened by the activists damaging the (future of) F40 long time ago. - Every project must fail if the participants (in French is a better word called "acteurs") loose the focus jumping around here and there having tons of ideas in mind, but dont bring anything into concrete which gives confidence for a safe planning in the future. Similarly we see nowadays the 30 second statements of politicians front microphone missing a long term plan/conception.

    What has a 53 Foot Cruising Tri designed by Newick to do with F40 ? I think the answer is clear, isnt ? Or have I overseen something ? I want keep the discussion as much as open in my threads, but pls keep focusses as "read thread" along the topic I throw into this forum. - Otherwise we might end in a messie data chaos for nothing good. - Tks giving attention/Skip JR :)
    ---

    P.S.: Its good to learn how projects go in 21st century... as all is "project process oriented" nowadays, e.g. the director of NASA academy Dr. Edward Hoffmann giving some perspects onto in an interview...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCYB2StmyD0
     
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