The client is always right...?

It all depends upon how you approach the issue.

Diplomacy is the art of letting other people have your way.

 

Chris
I gave some insight to my outlook above. I think it is important in all aspects of life to be demanding.

Being Australian I was nurtured in an environment where "she'll be right mate" was common wisdom. It is a reasonable way to approach life because it is low stress.

When I got into professional employment I had a few incidents that highlighted how costly that attitude could be. An attitude of "she'll be right" was not going to get me very far. When you experience someone under your responsibility scarred for life because of lack of care it also highlights a moral responsibility.

As my career progressed I started to see how companies with a good understanding of how to achieve quality - meeting or exceeding customer's requirements - were beating others. The starkest contrast for me personally was the way Japanese electrical equipment was trouncing the stuff supplied from the UK - Australia used to get a very large amount of gear from the UK. In more common areas Austin and Morris motor cars were being replaced by Honda and Toyota.

The reason Japan made such rapid progress can be traced to Demming, an American, who introduced key quality concepts to Japanese industry in the 50s. To me the key is "zero defects". While knowing is not possible it goes to a state of mind. The expectation of anything less is compromise or the old Australian attitude of "she'll be right mate".

So the notion of the customer always being right goes to state of mind. There is no point in proving them wrong. This was the attitude of the British car industry - where is that industry toady.

You are one person who is very aware that customers will spend their money elsewhere if they are not satisfied. Having to tell them they are wrong is not going to get more business. British Leyland could not convince motorists that cars were bound to break down when they could buy a Japanese car that didn't.

If I am hiring a professional it will be the one who sets out to optimise within my requirements. Not the one who takes the view that everything he does is a compromise and his opinion of his customers is that they are mostly wrong. He is going to put a lot of effort into telling me why things cant work rather than working out how they can.

The notion of the "customer is always right" is a state of mind. It should be the objective of everyone who serves - all of us basically. When we forget it we are going to be less than we could. On principal you may choose not to serve someone but if you take the first step then be fully committed.

Rick W

 

Ahh... no and...no. My position has been consistent.

Lying to them and telling them that they are right is going to get you less.

At last... something on which we can agree!

 

Finally got you to understand why the customer is always right - it has only taken a week.

Rick W

 

I wonder if Jeff could add a smilie to the menu that shows a bloke shaking his head in utter amazement....

 

....now all we need is to kiss and make up....

 

...My side of the arguement goes along with Rick in that quality can only be achieved by accepting that the product we produce must try to be made as best as we are able to make it, we all know that perfection is not going to happen, but that does not mean any less is OK.

Quote:
So the notion of the customer always being right goes to state of mind.

At last... something on which we can agree!

...I think we have sorted this out as best we can, arse licking is not appropriate, nor is thumping the table to prove we are right...the Yin and Yang of life determines that we should have a balanced life, both physical and mental, the approach to customer satisfaction should also be along these lines for a harmonious result....amen.

 

Sorry to throw cold water on this happy parade, but I was actually casting aspersions on Rick's state of mind...

I doubt there's anyone here who would disagree with that... well, perhaps with the exception one
I presume therefore that you will be changing your vote to a no?

 

Well, with a day of the poll still to go isn't it too early to say 'amen'?

I was surprised by poll count but note that by now the 'replies' are over 50. So a lot who have taken the trouble to post are choosing not to vote, and not take a simple literal view of a question usually tied to 'customer service' and guiding principle/attitudes. Extending that, there is an even greater number of 'views'. But its all so easy to vote - could there also be a message there? So put 4 sectors on the final pie chart? Er, no don't take me literally and post that.

I have been on both sides during my professional career with large organisations. Teams always give best results, and high performing teams require members to fill various 'standard' roles. Some of the team leader's most important jobs are to determine who 'naturally' takes on which role, ensure adequate air-time for each role at critical points and to ensure 'gaps' in team structure are filled (usually via a quite word one-on-one to someone asking them to do it). The smaller the team, the greater the need for rapport to get a result to be proud of. If it reduces to a team of two (client-professional) then each person will effectively have to take on more than one role at various times even if they don't explicitly 'change hats'. Even swapping roles for some sub-sets, Personalities will influence who does what. Yes-men effectively aren't on the team. Rarely, the gaps are so wide that walking aways is best.

I was relieved that taking the thread as a whole, most of these sentiments emerged. I might be willing to be a client after all! I still am a consultant/professional advisor in another industry.

 

Amen was the end of my "lecture" and of my comments, enough has been said to understand our opinions...

 

I thought that was an interesting observation, so I went back and counted the number of actual participants - 21, so actually a few have voted but not posted.

I have to agree with landlubber too... enough said...

 

Somehow Rick I don't think you got the real message underlying Dr. Demming's work. I got to know Dr. Demming personally in the early 80's right here in the good ol rust belt of American automotive production. At that time I was QC manager for a large automotive manufacturing operation. I am a true believer in Dr. Demmings work and statistical process controls.

Dr Demming stressed fixing variables and noting the effects throughout the system. This allowed an assessment of controllable variables and variables that could be assumed to be fixed and variables that could be eliminated.

You don't seem to make the jump from manufacturing widgets to one off boat design to well. The variables known to be important to yacht design have been known for years through trial, error, death and mayhem. The sea is still a place of huge forces and wild variations that are not controlled in any computer program.

There is a limited amount of time that any client can afford to have a NA spend on his design. Billable hours are limited so a good NA optimizes the time tested variables while setting and assuming others that have proved of lesser value. Once the time tested variables are delt with a good NA starts to incorporate as many of the other things a customer may want in the way of lesser variables. The whole process is driven by customer compromisation. You see its not the NA who compromises, its the customer who makes the decisions on compromises and that is why the customer throughout the process is not always right. That is why you hear the words “On my next boat I am going to do things different”. Guess that says it all.

In the end the whole very complicated project must be built by boat builders who have never heard of Dr Demming, come in on budget and perform as closely to what the client asked for as possible.

 

The client who is always right deserves what he gets

 

Nice one

 

I look at engineering risk. I assess ability of engineering structures and plant, including marine structures to survive in their environment. All these things can be assessed and measured to some probability. That is why regulations exists. I work beyond the regulations. I need to make reasonable estimates on the probability of certain things happening. Complying with regulations is not sufficient for my work.

Back to boats - I would not engage an NA or builder who did not have a good appreciation of quality management systems and quality control. That goes to outlook as well.

I had to make the jump from manufacturing widgets to applying it to the mining industry and dealing with what God provided. It starts with a completely unspecified world. But there are many quality parameters that can be controlled. This is why I am happy to carry on the discussion here because I have been through all these arguments before. As a mining representative I worked with regulators in one jurisdiction to become more demanding. I find the majority of the attitudes expressed here are the same as I encountered 20 to 30 years ago in the Australian mining industry. The current performance of the industry reflects the commitment to quality.

There is always room for improvement. So any design will have room to improve based on experienced gained with it.

Rick W