Sydney-Hobart won by multihull!!

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by bad dog, Dec 26, 2009.

  1. bad dog
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    bad dog bad dog

    This thread was started by this bloke who (on occasions, when a point needs to be made) calls monos 'sinkers' for the simple reason that when things go awry for them that's what they tend to do. And I do have first hand experience of that. :-0 Plus you need an awful lot of (lead) sinkers to make a keel. This term has been used in jest for years, I certainly did not use it maliciously - it refers to the earlier thread (last year?) about sinkable vs bouyant boats. Refer also my post about ******** ;-) On Pittwater this gybe is regularly traded for the one about taking our training wheels off, usually as we go wide round a huddle of monos at the top mark - but oh no, there goes the discussion again! Stop! There are fireworks to look at...

    This has turned out to be a more complex discussion than I anticipated, and I have benefited from the considered wisdom of all contributors - good ideas, good fun. Thanks gentlemen (and ladies???) - and Happy New Year to all!
     
  2. rayaldridge
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    rayaldridge Senior Member

    Is that what you think I'm doing? I thought I was just expressing the opinion that the S-H race would be more interesting if multis were included. And if you seriously believe there was no irrational prejudice among conventional sailors against multis, then you must be very young. If you think it doesn't still exist, try starting a thread about the safety advantages of multis and see what happens. A dozen old salts will immediately inform you that multis are death traps.

    My first cruising boat was a Wharram cat, over 30 years ago. Then we owned a couple of monohull cruisers, before I drew Slider. I hardly think it's fair for you to characterize my remarks as disrespectful, simply for offering a polite opinion about an ocean race, and speculating as to why multis might be excluded. Much as we might wish it to be otherwise, not everyone is smart, progressive, or well-informed. And let's try to remember that the question under discussion involves multis being excluded, not monohulls. I hope you're not saying that a desire to be treated equally is disrespectful.


    My actual attitude, if I may speak for myself, is that we're all out here to have fun, and if that means a mono to someone, more power to him. I have no less respect for mono sailors than for any other, unless they demonstrate some kind of bigotry. I just think it's a shame that so many ocean races continue to exclude a kind of boat that I am personally very interested in-- whatever the motive may be for that discrimination.

    By the way, I appreciate the historical info. Very interesting stuff, and you're right that it does cast a new light on the standard version of the past. Evidently LFH took a somewhat different view of matters, but that shouldn't be too surprising, since I believe the remarks I quoted were made on the occasion of the launch of Amaryllis 2. I'll have to look into the whole "why didn't cats catch on" question. I do know that there were a couple of spectacular capsizes during the period, which may have frightened the owners. Also, a lot of folks say that the modern multihull era could not have begun until plywood and really good glue came along, as a result of light aircraft construction during WWII.

    Finally, let me wish everyone here, friend or foe, a Happy New Year.
     
  3. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    RAY said:-
     
  4. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Predjudice? What predjudice? http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/self-righting-motor-trimaran-30769.html#post329117 post #7

     
  5. Alan M.
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    Alan M. Senior Member

    What would happen if multi's were allowed to race in the SH? I think the reason they aren't lies there.
     
  6. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Prejudice? What prejudice?


    A good founded biased opinion is a better one than a non founded neutral one.
    Yes I am not a multi man. And never will be (I know too much about their abilities)
    I am always impressed how agressive the multi society gets when one is against their systems. Mono sailors are quite more relaxed.

    But fact is: a multi finds his ultimate stability on his back! And that is where it belongs! A blue water vessel is never a instable multi, it is a mono!
     
  7. Alan M.
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    Alan M. Senior Member

    What an absolute ******.
     
  8. Alan M.
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    Alan M. Senior Member

    Some monohulls in their most stable position.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. bad dog
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    bad dog bad dog

    Hang on guys - let's not descend into mud slinging again, as happened on several other threads - it is really unattractive. We can think things we should not post. ;-)

    Mr Apex, you said "Yes I am not a multi man. And never will be (I know too much about their abilities)"

    Unfortunately this position does not allow for any alternative position. This may seem like aggressive argument tactics, but it is not logical nor scientific. There are always possibilities previously unconsidered, like 'what are the consequences of big trouble to yachts and crews of all types - who mostly survives what?' - such as whether it's better to be in a very slow moving but sailable upside down multi, or in a yacht with no rig (at best) or a raft at mercy of wind and currents, etc etc. But not here!

    This thread is not primarily focussed on one particular race and similar races and club situations, and the principles of multis vs monos is relevant only in terms of the Cruising Yacht Club of Australia, and other similar races and club situations.
     
  10. catsketcher
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    catsketcher Senior Member

    Let the old ways die with their thinkers

    There will always be people with attitudes that are arrogant and illogical. The fact that multis have set many round the world records and safe cruises will not sway some that they are a valid choice for others. The remarks above show this to be the case. Let's not reply in kind - I certainly won't buy into the "my choice is the only choice" rant. There is too much intolerance already in the world.

    When I brought my Nugget to Sydney Harbour in 1983 my two best friends watched me pass through the Spit Bridge shaking their heads. As a proficient mono sailor I had crossed some unspoken line to a different tribe. I had some toredo worm in the keel and after the greetings I got with the Nugget I never took it to one of the best builders in Australia for advice - even though I was good friends with his youngest son and he had helped me out before. I was ashamed of the boat amongst my mono friends. All I ever wanted was for was for my choice to be accepted and tolerated without bitterness or derision.

    That has surely happened in the main now. It is really apparent out cruising which may be why I have a different slant on this. I have friends who have done big miles on monos who like my cat - they don't want one but they like her. That is a common feeling when cruising - we go faster, stay level, take the ground, need less water - they can see this for themselves. I have not come across any arrogant attitudes towards my cat since I launched her in 2000.

    Remarks like Apex's are so rare now that they are good to remind us of how far we have come. It is like listening to an old man complaining about women driving. The once deafening chorus is now reduced to a few lone warbles.

    cheers

    Phil
     
  11. Landlubber
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    .....don't tell me you reckon that women should be allowed to drive....bloody hell...what next, you will allow them to vote too i guess.....bah Humbug.
     
  12. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    Aargh, couldn't stay out of it!

    Can I say, Apex is NOT representive of all monohullers?

    Ray, I don't think we are foes; merely people in an animated discussion!

    I never meant to say that you had no right to wish multis were in the Hobart - what I was trying to point out was that there are certain perfectly reasonable reasons for their exclusion, just like there are perfectly reasonable reasons for many cat clubs to exclude monos.

    Apologies if I have gotten close to the bone, but IMHO you also got close to the bone when you wrote that certain clubs and sailors were 'self serving', 'less than admirable' or that they don't seem fair. And passages like "most of us here understand the great superiority of multihulls for cruising", which implies that those who prefer monos for cruising are in the wrong for not understanding that cats have a 'great superiority'.

    There are actually plenty of highly intelligent and vastly experienced people who aren't biased against multis, who know what multis can do, appreciate what multis can do, but prefer monohulls for cruising or racing (ie Ian Farrier prefers racing mono dinghies to beach cats and he's not exactly prejudiced against multis!). It depends what sort of sailing you like, what you like to do when cruising, etc etc etc. It's a very personal matter that does NOT necessarily involve prejudice or lack of knowledge. I may add that many of these people sail monohulls that I personally wouldn't want to cruise on, but that's their choice and it CAN be made for extremely logical, well informed and reasonable causes.
     
  13. bad dog
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    bad dog bad dog

    What would make me laugh (at myself as much as anyone) would be the development of a hitherto unheard of hull form that is a hybrid mono/multi - both and yet neither - that was a better than both in all respects. That'd shut us up!
    ;-)
     
  14. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Hybrid

    Now that you mention it, bad dog, both Julian Bethwaite and Sean Langman have given thought to such a beast( and me ,too):
     

    Attached Files:


  15. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    We've been there for some time now, bad dog, with boats that are designed to be affordable and sailed by the everyday guy. You want dinghy-like performance with multihull-like stability for solo, as well as family sailing?

    Take a look at the images shown below.
     

    Attached Files:

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