Sydney-Hobart 2012

Not much welding left to do now and the last set of burns have healed while I've been swanning about playing with software, drinking beer and watching pretty women along the waterfront. I suppose it's time to come back home and finish the last of the welding. At least the epoxy in those anchor rode bins should be fully cured by now.

On the plane tomorrow. I'll be at the Taste a bit after 1730 I expect so if you're going to be around, give me a call and we'll catch up for a drink or 2.

PDW

 

Sh

I don't want to get back in this recurring arguement(their are threads galore on it). But just this: your arguement for "purity" is an arguement to limit canting keels to boats where the crew can move the keel. You wish (I guess) to impose, in the name of sailing purity, a limit to the size boat that can use modern technology like canting keels and large sloop rigs. I think it is short sighted and completely ignores the spectacle and beauty of these extraordinary sailboats that are re-writing the record books time and time again. I look forward to whats coming next-maybe on-deck sliding ballast, DSS and other types of foils. But that stuff may be a long ways off given the world situation, so I'll just enjoy these great sailboats using 30 year old technology to be the fastest on the ocean-more "power" to them!

 

We'd get a lot further if you addressed the point I made rather than inventing one I didn't or trying to attribute motives & beliefs I may or may not hold.

I am saying that the accepted definition of a sailboat is a boat that can be operated under muscle power alone.

These big race boats are *not* sailboats as everyone understands the term.

They should be in their own class.

They are not re-writing the record books because they are not sailboats. They can't work without an engine running.

Now do you understand my point or do I have to try yet again?

FWIW I don't care if they exist, don't exist, evolve further, go extinct due to cost pressures etc. I personally have no interest in them any more than I do in power boats racing but I can't see any reason for banning them either. If you like them, fine. Just don't pretend that they're sailboats because, as they can't operate without an engine running, they're not in the accepted use of the term. It really is that simple.

I suspect that you know this yourself but as you like this sort of boat, you don't want to admit it. Shrug.

PDW

 

Doug - it just gets so boring seeing rich old men, egged on by desperate Naval Architects and multinational exotic material manufacturers, spend heaps on technology so they have 'bragging rights' at some high-class bar.

This isn't just about hating powered canting keels for me (even though they are immoral aberrations) . The whole 'speed at any cost' thing just gets to be a boring round of 'hey, I have more money than you, aren't I wonderful'

Getting to Hobart fast can be done in 2 hours on any commercial flight - ho humm. The ultimate speed thing is just a waste of time as long as you are restricted to water supported modes of transport.

The real joy came from the original Syd-Hob when some modest cruising yachts ( hey currently its the 'Cruising Yacht Club' that hosts this event ) decided to try to get to Hobart for new years celebrations

I think they should do what so many classes have done - have an inexpensive one-design class, that displays just the sheer teamwork, navigation skill and strategy that really makes sailing competition interesting.

Being an old curmudgeon - I would also make that one-design class able to do something useful like deliver Sydney Rock Oysters and Pittwater Champagne for the New Year Celebrations, and give lots of extra points for total load carried.

Maybe I am just 'technology tired', but the real appeal of sailing just isnt about the speed, and it certainly is a long way from high cost solutions.

 

Sh

===============
Mr. Watson, I don't blame you at all for feeling the way you do-lots of people do. But lots of people are also turned on by the development of sailing technology-for some people thats what sailing is all about. Getting a sailboat to go faster is not just about speed its about using science to improve the way power is extracted from the wind, its about developing the techniques to handle this new technology and its about the incredible joy that comes from doing what nobody has done before.
When I was a kid nobody would have thought a canting keel was a good idea, nor would they have even considered the idea of an Americas Cup with foiling catamarans in it. We are in the midst of one of the greatest bursts of sailing technology development I have ever seen in my 50 years of sailing and design and I think it is just plain exciting.
Happy New Year!

 

Agree completely.

I'm not really interested in racing at all, but I think 'one design' racing is a hell of a lot better for showing differences in skill rather than differences in wealth.

Being a cynic, I suspect that's exactly why these rich folk don't build one design boats and race against others. It'd be embarrassing to get shown up by someone with a lot less money but a lot more skill.

I'm willing to bet that I once I've got my boat in the water I can beat WOXI from Sullivans Cove to Maria Island provided there's no restriction on route and both of us can have unlimited running time on our engines. I reckon you know what course I'd be taking....

PDW

 

No, you have missed the point others have made.

The people who can afford a supermaxi are not disturbed by the current world economy. They are still building boats. In fact, as it has been pointed out, they are actually spending MORE than it would take to build a WOXI beater. They are simply choosing to play in other arenas.

The Oats team has been doing a great job updating their machine year-by-year. But they are the only people playing the game at that level. So they should be able to be favorites for FtF in the Hobart for as long as they want to continue playing. I don't forsee anyone else getting into the game in the near future.

 

Except Herreshoff published a design for one about 70 years ago. He seemed to think it was a good idea.

 

==============
I disagree...

 

In many instances they are. For example, in the Transpace a boat with a canting keel cannot win the Barn Door Trophy.

Also, in the TransAtlantic records there are divisions for Powered and Non-Powered attempts.

 

Sh

==============
That may be true and one of the next great technologies-on-deck sliding ballast- was also pioneered on several race winning boats by one(or more) Herreshoffs in the 1800's.
But as I said when I was a kid most people would have rejected canting keels, on-deck movable ballast and foiling catamarans in the Americas Cup(or in the SH for that matter) out of hand.

 

With Facts?

People are building J Class replicas. They are far more expensive than a supermaxi would be.

People are building Wallys to do "gentlemen's racing", boats as large and more expensive than a supermaxi would be.

People are building Jongerts, and similar types of modern, fast cruisers and racer/cruisers, many much larger and much more expensive than a supermaxi would be.

Some supermaxi owners have downsized and built smaller custom boats because they think there is better competition in other classes. Other potential owners are playing ACup. Still others are spending their dosh on giant powerboats.

Loads of superwealthy are still spending. They just have no interest in the supermaxi class.


So you can "disagree", but with what?

 

Personally I would like to see the MOD70 trimarans do a Hobart, I think they are at least as qualified as "yachts" than the motor sailors.
But of course the purists would never allow it. Even the two ORMA 60's we have here would put on a good match race I'm sure.
I am totally sympathetic to the Mums and Dads cruiser philosophy but then why not stick to it ?
The motor boats create interest and spectacle and $$$$$$$ thats why.
Any one care to speculate on a time for Bank Populaire V given the conditions just raced in ?

 

I've read this sort of comment for years.

Why don't the multis who want to go to Hobart simply run their own event? Set up an association and get the permits and do it. No need for the CYCA or anyone else.

"Ooh, THEY won't let us go..." is just a whining excuse.

 

The millions that pour into WOXI are staggering, over a million a year just to replace the highly stressed rig after each racing season. These boats are rebuilt continuously because they are so fragile. Winning is terribly expensive.

In the 1800's The better sailing ships in favorable weather could make Hobart in under 3 days carrying hundreds of tons of cargo. "George Horne" a smaller Tasmanian built fully rigged cargo vessel at 430 tons laden did it to their amazement once in 2 days 10 hrs and with a similar number of crew to WOXI.

It's funny how the smaller boats were seen as being the challenge. Now the length is up with the smaller cargo ships like George Horne, and able to carry nothing. Costing more to build and operate, and still only getting in less than a day faster, even with an engine running constantly and detailed, ground based high tech weather and current routing information. Not to mention the best sailors in the game.

These machines are not about fair competition and they taint the race in my opinion. Neither do they race on the same course as far as weather is concerned no handicap can make that aspect fair.