Sydney-Hobart 2012

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You're so predictable. But, but, how do they move all that water? In races with equal length boats a canting keel has repeatedly proven faster than a waterballast only boat. Wild Oats XI is the fastest Sydney-Hobart yacht of all time like it or not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n4F9VRE3VQ

 

If I gave a 30 hp outboard to one or two of Wild Oats competitors, they would have the advantage.

Its no good saying that the HP driving the canting keel is not directly applied to propulsion - because it is.

Given sufficient wind, its the equivalent to having an outboard as long as the canting keel is powered by fuel, and therefore not a comparable test.

 

Wild oats is a good example of how hi tech motor sailers have become

 

How do they move all that water? I may be wrong but IIRC in the biggest water-ballasted boat I've sailed (80') it was scooped up initially and then normally transferred by gravity before a tack or gybe. It was much more pleasant with the noise of the engine off.

In the end it's a moot point. Take away Lahana's water ballast and she will go almost as fast and she can do it with no stored power to drive winches or keel. She is proof that anyone who says you cannot use manual winches to drive a modern 30m maxi to racing speeds is a liar.

And what is the point of Oats going faster? So you get to do less sailing - where's the fun in that? Simply getting to the finish faster is not the point because she remains probably the LEAST cost- or hassle-effective possible way to get from the start to the finish. If going faster on a course is what counts, windsurfer slalom racing would be the world's #1 sail racing discipline. In the real world, there are many things more important than simple speed.

Wild Oats would be beaten by lots of smaller multis, and if they allowed 130 footers in the race she could be beaten by a bigger version of herself. Since she performs as she does only because fundamental rules have been changed, her performance is not astounding.

It's like allowing fins and torpedo-like suits in Olympic swimming - of course the records would fall but they would be deemed simply a creation of altered rules, just as they were when the buoyant suits were briefly allowed.

Wild Oats sailing as she currently is would be beaten by a sister aided by a superyacht that would smash its way through headseas and calm them for the racing yacht. Wild Oats would be beaten by a sistership aided by a superyacht that would drop off fresh crew each couple of hours and pick up tired ones and allow them to have a good nights sleep. Wild Oats would be beaten by a sister with a superyacht that provided a big wake on which to surf.

Just about every boat goes faster with the motor running. My own boat would almost always go faster with the motor running. My bicycles would arguably go faster if I had a small electric motor to drive each pedal through the dead part of the stroke*, but that is illegal. A rowing shell would go faster if an electric motor was used when sliding the seat back aft for a new stroke, but that is illegal. Tow surfing doesn't directly affect the rider when he's surfing the wave, but it still is not allowed in the normal events.

Rowing, surfing and cycling are classic examples that show that sports in which natural power and manual strength is prized - which has always been the case in ocean racing - do not allow engines or stored power for anything other than safety, living and illumination in the major classic events. Why should sailing be any different?

Since engine-powered canting keels and water ballast were allowed in the Volvo/Whitbread, that race has shrunk. Since they were allowed in maxis, that class has shrunk. Running motors to shift ballast is proven to harm classes.

These examples may prove that it's not sufficient to say that mechanical power should be banned if it's not directly driving the boat. That is not the point, as mechanical power used indirectly can also make a boat much faster. Oh, and throwing a few dozen adjectives around is not a reasoned reply!

BTW, you are hardly in a position to call anyone "predictable".


* yep, I know about "pedalling circles", but well-credentialled coaches say it's arguable whether it works, at least in TTs.

 

CT is right, Doug - and you know it.
Otherwise the analogy of allowing stinkers in wind powered yacht racing is very much the same as allowing that cheating, delusional sack of defecation Lance Armstrong to use (motors) to dope up his performance.

 

Thats just BS Gary-and you know it!!!

 

Do you want to try for a more detailed rebuttal there Doug ?

It sounds like the logic has flumoxed you there a bit.

 

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No. I've said enough. My position is so diametrically opposed to the other stance in this matter that it simply isn't worth anymore dialog.
There is no logic, no discussion, and no way that I would ever concede Wild Oats XI, The Volvo 70's, the Open 60's and other great race boats using similar systems are anything but among the finest examples of monohull design technology on this planet.

edit: added word "among"
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you mean the fastest purpose built powerered hobart boat

 

Forgot a word -

..... finest examples of POWERED monohull design technology

 

and when a volvo 70' or an open 60's goes up wind they are slow and they break
They are designed to do one job hardly the finest technology but maybe for that one job

 

Would the same objections apply if the canting keel was driven by an electric engine powered by batteries that at the end of the race must be at the same state of charge as at the beginning?(solar ,wind , hydro)

 

What do you mean, Doug, "finest example of monohull design on this planet."?
Forgetting the Lance Armstronging (dopey motor) - no rotating wing mast equals decades backward. Greg Elliott put a rotating mast on Excess more than three decades ago - and a little later on his two masted Elliott Marine - well before the Open 60's placed such rigs on their boats; WOXI has some catching up to do.

 

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Thanks ,Gary-corrected above.

 

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Timothy, the Schock 40 uses an electrical system and others do too for their canting keels. As to what criteria passes the "retro purist" test, you'll have to ask one of them.