Swing keel help, please

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by sailortoo, Jan 14, 2005.

  1. sailortoo
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    sailortoo Junior Member

    Chysler 22 swing keel. Need manual or info to remove keel. The mechanism that the keel pivots on is almost completely destroyed by corrosion. Probably will have to replace entire hardware, but keel is ok. Any help will be appreciated.
     
  2. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    keel pivot

    I had a TS-18 with a swing keel many moons ago and it had a SS bolt thru an iron keel. The bolt was below the wl and after installation each side of it had been covered with clay and glassed then painted with gel coat. So to access the bolt you had to grind/chisel away the glass.
     
  3. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Lorsail is correct, that's how it's done on your 22. They had an issue with swollen centerboards becoming jammed in the case. I hope this isn't what's going on with your boat. You should insure the board can drop freely, before you spend a bunch of effort and money on new hoisting gear and getting the pin out.
     
  4. sailortoo
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    sailortoo Junior Member

    Sir: Thanks for your reply. My keel is solid steel. I believe the entire pivot mechanism is corroded beyond repair and nees to be replaced. Could you advise procedure or information base to guide removal? I have keel lowered and boat on jacks. I don't detect a "pin" but there is an access in the cabin area which I suspect is the pivot. If I remove fasteners, will keel separate from hull? Any thoughts will be appreciated.

    sailortoo
    inotbadtt@hotmail.com
     
  5. B. Hamm
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    B. Hamm Junior Member

    Keel is likely cast iron, not steel. Usually with a swing keel, once the pivot is removed the keel will fall from the slot, though may have to come out in only one direction, usually aft, since sometimes the slot isn't as long as the top of the keel. It's a fairly tricky procedure since the keel is fairly heavy and has to be very well supported, if it falls on someone it will cause serious injury.

    Any parts needing replaced will likely have to be made, these boats have been out of production for many years.

    B. Hamm
     
  6. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    If I remember correctly, that board weighs in at around 900 pounds and is cast iron. If this is the hull that has the 6" stubby fin under the belly where the slot is, the pin is in the forward lower corner. If it's the hull where the slot is directly in the belly (no protrusion on the bottom) then the pin is inside the cabin. You will see some distortion around the area where the pin lives. This may be wax, tar, foam, who knows, hack it out until you find the end of the pin. After a little grinding it may make itself obvious with rust stains and flakes, the 'glass in the area may also show signs of delaminating. Feel around with a small magnet, this will get you close, then gas up the grinder.

    The board will need to be supported with the strength to man handle 900 pounds of iron out of the slot. Not an easy thing for the backyard DIY'er, but it can be done. You don't want it to fall, because more often then not, the thing will get it's half a ton *** jammed in the slot. Think about using slings rigged around the boat. Personally I use a tractor with a bucket, though it's usually replaced with a rake. The boat needs to be well supported, stands chained and weighted down (I prefer cradles). You can easily knock the boat off the stands trying to wiggle the board out, it weights near as much as the boat and you'll likely be using a bit of force.

    To get the pivot pin out, once it's been found and exposed, you relieve the weight on the pin by lifting the board and it should slide right out, in a perfect world. In reality it will need to be drilled, beat on, cussed and generally talked it's way out of the hole (yes, you can bet it'll go kicking a screaming)

    After you've passed beer around to all involved, you should consider how to get things back in order. If the pin rode in a bushing, replace it, if not, drill for a bronze one, sized to fit a new pin. Clean the board (sandblast) and give it a coating of epoxy, maybe a strip of 'glass down it's leading edge to protect the coating, if you want (you don't want to have to do this again) If, possible see if you can engineer a way to get a zerk fitting in the bushing, so you can grease the pin every so often. Remember to seal the pivot location up again in a way that will not let the pin get glued with the sealing up process (wax or tar or my favorite clear plastic box tape) use epoxy for the glass work, it's stronger and doesn't stick to the tape.

    Invite lots of big friends over when you do this, they may come in handy. It's nice to have friends around to laugh at you when you screw something up or bang your head. You can put them to work dragging the beast (trust me this is what you'll be calling it once you do get it out) someplace meaningless just to get back at them for laughing when you banged your head.

    Good Luck,
     
  7. B. Hamm
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    B. Hamm Junior Member

    Hi Par,

    Never done this before huh? LOLOLOL

    Bill Hamm
     
  8. sailortoo
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    sailortoo Junior Member

    To: Bill Hamm

    Thanks for all your information and support. I believe the pin/pivot is in the cabin. There is an inspection hole on the interior starboard side of the raised portion of the floor where the keel rests in the up position. When exposed there is a plate. Under the seat on the port side is an identical plate.It is difficult to determine what is pin and what is pivot because it is so badly corroded. I plan to remove each plate to see if the keel can be removed from the slot. First, however, after reading your advisement, I might use a center punch and hit what may be the pin to see if there is movement.

    Yep, this is a first for me. I have always been a power boat Captain but decided to purchase a sailboat to see what all the fun was about. I'll keep plenty of beer on hand and watch out for the head bumps.

    Thanks again.

    inotbadtt@hotmail.com
     
  9. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The raised portion of the keel where you found the pivot inspection plate is the centerboard case. The thing inside is a board, a big heavy chunk of cast iron, 6' long and able to crush a man, no problem. It needs to be supported, WELL. If it isn't and you are able to drive the pin out, once it clear the inboard face of the case the pin and board will drop and bind up in the slot, making hitting on the pin any more or driving it out any farther much less likely. Use a drift, not a center punch. A drift is a flat nosed punch just smaller then the size of the pin you need to drive. The drift will not move metal like a center punch can and you'll be much less likly to "stake" the pin in with a drift. You use a lot more of the hammer blow with a well sized drift then a center punch too.

    If you're having trouble seeing the difference between the bushing and pin, then use an angle grinder, with a metal grinding blade, to knock down the outer surface and get down to good, shiny metal. Try hard to get this method to work, trust me. Don't be tempted to use heat, though it may work, will probably cause a load of issues with the surrounding 'glass. Drilling is the last thing you want to have to do, as you'll never get the center alignment correct and will end up with a needle nose vise grip twisting bits of pin material out of the hole to try an get it free of metal. Wiggling is a good thing as is lots of penetrating oil (I use PB Blaster), banging is a good thing and allows you to think about your in-laws for a while. Make an event out of it. Buy some beer, invite your friends, drag the stereo outside and have a "bash the hell out of the damned centerboard pivot pin party" always a favorite amongst the folks I know . . .

    Eventually you'll get the thing to move down, sans the pin. Take a sip of beer (okay, big gulp) and dig out the flat bars and pry bars. It'll have ragged bits of metal sticking out of the ends where the pin use to live and will dig, gouge and hang up inside the case, you'll have to talk to it with the pry bars. By careful, this thing can kill you if it lands on you footsie and pounds your *** in to the ground like a tent stake. Grit your teeth, beat, bash, cuss (cuss some more, it helps) drink more beer, kick the dog (blame it on the friends that laughed at you when you hit your head) and it'll come out.
     
  10. sailortoo
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    sailortoo Junior Member

    Swing keel help, please.

    PAR:

    Wow! Great information. I sent a note of appreciation previously, but alas I mis-addressed it. Believe me, I REALLY do appreciate your input. As stated, I am just learning about sailboats and maybe this purchase will turn out "lemon" like. I had a professional take a look-see and he advised me to resell the sailboat. Initial estimate was $1000 just to determine the cost to repair. Thus I am now trying to make the boat seaworthy for the challenge. I am still not sure if I am looking at the pin, but I will follow your advise and start hammerin' and cussin' to "move that pin". Got some beer and a few friends lined up.

    Thanx a lot!!!

    inotbadtt@hotmail.com
     
  11. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Screw the guy that said sell it, "you own it now" and you can do what ever you like. At the very least, you can convince the other half it's a lawn decoration or large widow planting box. Get out the grinder and hammer, have a good time and insure all your bad words go towards the *** that said "sell it", It's fun, it's entertaining and most of all it going to be better the *** said it would . . .

    You'll find the pin with the grinder, trust me . . .
     
  12. sailortoo
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    sailortoo Junior Member

    PAR

    Right on. Found the pin today, just like you said. Inside the center board slot seaward are two perpendicular iron plates that run from the botton of the slot up to the top of the slot. Each plate had six studs through the boat structure, one starboard at the inspection hole and one port under the seat. Also each plate has a 1" inch "pipe" welded on which also protrudes into the inspection hole starboard and under the seat port side. The starboard pipe was closed end while the port pipe had a screw cap on it. I removed the cap using the grinder and with some cussin and beer and lo and behold there was a 3/4" stainless PIN. The pin is center drilled to a depth of 1 1/2" and threaded. I am assuming that I will be able to screw a bolt into the threaded pin and by tighting up the bolt it will act like a harmonic puller and extract the pin to the port side.

    Now all I've got to do is do it and THEN reinstall it. That will be a hoot!! I've got some pictures that I will try to attach.

    Thanx again
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    keel(!)

    Way to go S2!
     
  14. sailortoo
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    sailortoo Junior Member

    Many thanks to all. Got the pin out today. Not as difficult as I had anticipated 'cause of your guys help. I'l leave this thread for a few more days.

    Thanx again!!
     

  15. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Way to go sailortoo . . . where at in Florida are you I send over a well earned beer.
     
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