Strange epoxy wetout

hehe,,,,,good job ,,,but when they say "not intended for clear coating" are you sure it means it cures clear? ,,but you proved me wrong,,,some people CAN read lmaooo im jealous,, gonna tell wifey she needs to teach me how ta read too! let us know how it works

 

I am not to inclined to agree with the article "Wests best kept secret". On the main product info page of the west system site the 207 hardener is listed along with its intended use.

and again in the user manual:

I am not trying to be a pig head here, just pointing out the importance in reading all of the instructions, and literature.

Be sure you catch this in the quote above:

 

Final Note -
Yes, you are right about reading the literature, but 20 pages of fine print mean that some things go unread until you have a particular problem in mind (bit like a contract)
I have also read about 6 other boat building books, years of articles and magazines - and this 'special coating' has never crossed my path before.
This is why I built the canoe I suppose - to experience the gotchas with strip plank building.
I found out why it is a 'best kept secret' too.
Over here in Aus - 4 litres of West resin (105 variety) costs around $83 to $130. The quote I got for enough 207 hardener only for 4 litres was $106 plus freight - 50% more than the cheapest resin! You bet I will look at competitors products if I ever require it again.
Also, There are no West System agents in Melbourne (a city of 3.5 mill ) who stock this hardener - now I know why.
Since I have done half the interior using the 'not recomended' hardners, and already bought them, I am going to continue with what I have got. If I was building a concours d'elegance boat, I would have been upset, but this trial canadian canoe will probably end up as 'grandchildren training equipment' as it has been a 'grandfather boat building trainer' project.

Thanks for all the input - it has been fun to nut out the details. I will declare myself satisfied with the research. For epoxy covered strip plank enthusiasts I have documented my project at

http://au.360.yahoo.com/greenwoodenfish

Take care everyone

 

Ray,
Your project documentary is nicely done, I would recommend it to anyone who is considering such a project.

 

You did not specify the temps that you were working with. I have found that when working with West System in any condition below 70-75 F complete wet out takes a little work and a judicial use of a heat gun and a bubble roller or squeegee. The heat gun will temporarily reduce the viscosity of the resin and allow the fiber to wet out. Your guide should be your hand if it is too hot for your hand it is too hot for the resin. Approx 150 F. Start lightly and you should see your correct temp. Also in a given pot of resin you can have various temps in the resin this is probably why you are getting the variable wet out.

 

Thanks for the info. I did a section the other day with heat gun ready, so after payin $50 for a heat gun the weather shot up over 24 deg.
The 'characteristic' still occurred. Clear where poured, silvery threads showing where epoxy was moved to. Squeegee, rolling, no effect on the result.
But I will hang on to your advice and the heat gun - got some 'poxy to lay in cool weather tommorrow

 

exactly!!

 

Theres a difference between seeing the outline of the weave, versus seeing the actual threads through between the viewer and the underlying timber.
And its not milky spots that I am talking about - see the picture that I posted.

 

flip ya canoe on its side, do a small section, see if it still happens

 

Further trials -
Just a quick note there 1Much, this 'feature' appears as much on the horizontal surface as the slightly vertical.
I had a chance to try out the heat gun idea the other day. I believe it helped alleviate the problem but it was difficult to tell. When using the squeegee on the first layer, the sections that are showing the slight threads are hard to see because of reflections off the textured surface of the cloth weave.
However, on a few sections I did spot occurring, the application of the heat gun appeared to reduce or eliminate the visibility of the threads.
So it appears that it is a viscosity problem, which is why you need special hardener for totally transparent work.
Going over 2 or 3 metres with a heat gun looking for visible spots is not really a commercially viable option, especially since the heat makes the epoxy set faster and you have to get the goo laid.
To use the heating system, you would have to wetout the fabric deep enough to observe which sections were not properly saturated. Then , with the heat gun, carefully work across the area, warming the semi-transparent bits. Once all the visible bits had been heated and made transparent, then you could squeegee off the excess resin. The danger is, with the heat gun, you can get curing sections of resin before the excess was removed. I was too worried about this to spend a lot of time going over the whole area.
The whole interior is laid now, so its more of a characteristic to note for future projects - so for clear work , 207 hardener only!

 

heheeh for future projects,,, pay someone to do it im thinking if it takes all that i aint neva gonna do stuff with hipoxy
and glad ya gotter-dun imma keeping this thread,,,,,,jus in case i get something made of that goo on accident

 

Nah 1Much, we are not talking difficult - just finicky. I am sure you are not resining over timber and trying to keep it 'bright'. The epoxy is not harder to apply than resin, but the transparancy of standard resin is about the same as my worst patches on the canoe.
Not that you would put resin over woodwork in most cases.
What the whole exercise has taught me is that standard epoxy gives the impression of being an ideal 'bright' coat on timber, wheras in actual fact, that is only the case if one uses a specialist epoxy.
The insides are still going to look pretty spiffy, but you wouldnt enter it in a concours event.
As I said earlier, it was just a learning exercise, and after a few muddy sneakers and scaly fish have been slapped around the insides, the finicky quality questions will be irrelevent.
The MAJOR principle I have learned is that you would want a *really* good reason for doing strip plank boat with a bright finish. It sure isnt the quickest way to get on the water. Maybe one day my ego will require such a show pony, but it wont be this century.

 

heh,,everything i do is a "learning" experience..i've learned more working on a 10 foot row boat then i've learned building 98 foot sailing yachts. and i'm the "pickiest" person to detail when i'm doing the paint work,, so bad that after i sand noone's allowed in the shop hehehe
so using poly and vinyl is like my "break" im too old to be picky on the color of my resin haha maybe thats why i refuse to learn ta varnish woodwork
and i'm GLAD there's people like you that like it as well but not too lazy to learn to make woodwork look great! im a wood lover,,,,,, cept fer working with it
my hats off to ya

 

The binder on the cloth is known in the U.S. as the "finish" on the cloth... you should ask when buying it. If you do get stuck with polyester finish... you can wash down the roll with acetone, the let it dry and it will work fine for epoxy. Another tip for viscosity is to thin the epoxy with denatured alcohol (Not Acetone) it takes less than 5%. I think your batch was "kicking" as you applied it. If you use too much resin...you can use paper towels to absorb the extra resin.... Just my 2 cents.

 

here's a penny back ,,, hahahahhaha j/k ,, but couldnt help it