Step by step to design your boat!

Discussion in 'Software' started by apex1, Jun 15, 2009.

  1. thudpucker
    Joined: Jul 2007
    Posts: 885
    Likes: 31, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 453
    Location: Al.

    thudpucker Senior Member

    I'm destined to be a failure at boat design software.
    I still couldnt make sense of all the choices at Delfship site. I gave up. I have a good design from Lewis boats anyway. I just wanted to do it myself.

    Lewis didnt include the little Jon he did for me in his drawings.
    He's sure enamord with those pointy boats aint he? ;)
     
  2. lewisboats
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 2,329
    Likes: 126, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1603
    Location: Iowa

    lewisboats Obsessed Member

    Ok...here's yours too...and another pointy one being built in Australia and a picture of the DuckSkiff that was built, a Chugger that was also built (definitely a paint job by an out of the box thinker...nice guy tho) and a pic of my current build which is a Stevenson's Lake Scow...with mods of course ;)

    PS: oops forgot to add the DinkyDink...got a bit larger one being built but don't have pics handy.

    and another blunt nose...ScoutCanu which has seen a few reincarnations...as a canoe and as a sailboat with 2 different rigs Background on the lawnsailing one has a pic of the hull of the 10 ft fishing boat and another which hasn't been finished yet...going on 6 years now but someday.

    Last is my own Chugger...as flat as you can get.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. lewisboats
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 2,329
    Likes: 126, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1603
    Location: Iowa

    lewisboats Obsessed Member

    History...I started with software...specifically Carene50. I drew what I thought were boats. Some were...most weren't. Then I started buying books to research what I was being told I didn't know. I have applied the info that about $1500 in books (used mostly but some new) in designing over the past 8 years. I have a library of over 100 books covering design, materials, construction, motive design (sail and motor and oar) currently and am constantly looking for more. I have progressed to using FreeShip...in fact I have been on board from the very start and have helped Martjin with a few items as he progressed in the various versions. I currently use Carene 2008 (not available anymore) to define the basics of what I want and then import into Freeship to hone and refine the hull. Rigs, foils and such I usually keep in the old noggin until I am sure of the results. Someone CAN design a simple hull...I say again...SIMPLE hull but to go any further requires study of hydrodynamics, engineering, materials and construction techniques. If you want to do designing....be prepared for the long haul and a chunk of change and time devoted to learning what you don't think you need. I think software is very good to help you with what you want but there is a need for a solid background of principals to lend credence to what is possible with the software. It is just as easy to design a deathtrap as a lifeboat without a base of knowledge to draw on. PAR has more than once told me that "pretty pictures" aren't boats and I think it has finally sunk in. I work on more than just what I think looks good or like a boat now than in the past and I hope it shows in what comes out the other end. The designs and boats that are represented here are a very small fraction of what I have done...mostly junk to be honest...but at the time I did them they were the greatest! Looking at past efforts I can't believe I thought any of them were worth considering... let alone spending time thinking about actually building. Yes...I consider building each and every one of the boats I outline. Time, money and storage constrain me from letting the beast loose but I do have a few that are near and dear to the heart and that I would like to eventually build if granted time and money. A couple are represented here...perhaps you can pick them


    Apex1...sorry to rain on your parade...I really don't mean to. I think most people who are ACTUALLY and REALLY interested in designing boats can get a jumpstart using software but there REALLY is a need to build a knowledge base of hydrostatics, fluid dynamics and materials properties to design boats that are functional and safe. Chugger is not really such a design and I have to constantly stress to anyone who builds one that it has quite a few limitations and must be kept within those limitations to be a useable craft. A re-design would entail much re-do at the expense of much of the simplicity tho. It is OK for what it can do but no more.

    I am interested in your lessons...perhaps there is a shortcut that no one knows about that you will reveal...I look forward to reading more as the thread progresses.

    Steve
     
  4. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
    Posts: 2,918
    Likes: 254, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1306
    Location: Thailand

    Alik Senior Member

    2lewisboats:
    You are designing SMALL boats for Your own use. Some of them are boxy, some of them are nice! Making small steps form smaller to bigger boats - good practice.

    Trouble often happens when one starts to design boats for sale or for commercial use, without basic knwledge and experience. I have few samples of such 'boats' sitting in marina next to us... and also some abandoned on the beach or in jungle :)
     
  5. lewisboats
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 2,329
    Likes: 126, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1603
    Location: Iowa

    lewisboats Obsessed Member

    Some are boxy, some are nice... sometimes boxy IS nice...just depends on what you are looking for.

    Still the sentiment comes through...thanks for the thumbs up!

    True...larger SHIPS should ALWAYS be designed by competent NAVAL ARCHITECTS and I can't stress that enough. A SHIP must be able to complete it's mission over and over again and provide a safe return on it's investment by a magnitude or more. Ships are a significant difference than boats...but I think Apex1 is leaning more towards the boat and Yacht thinker and designer than the Ship designer. A smaller boat has less "on the line" than the ship although those who venture out in them don't think so. A ship must protect itself, its cargo and its crew over and over again whereas a boat is only responsible for itself and crew on an infrequent and chosen basis. Not a lot of difference but when the cargo is valued in millions of (take your pick) and the crew numbers in the tens then it becomes a large factor in the design. Even larger yachts carry the onus of the protection of itself and it's crew that is biased towards being absolutely minimally risky. Any smaller boat has inherent risk...regardless of the competency of the designer. A small boat just CAN'T survive what a big boat or ship can unless specifically slotted to do ie. (rescue/survival). I think Apex1 is targeting towards those who wish to design their own boats or hulls that they might think others might be interested in. Much like myself in fact.

    Steve
     
  6. lewisboats
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 2,329
    Likes: 126, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1603
    Location: Iowa

    lewisboats Obsessed Member

    GOD I'M HAVING FUN WITH THIS THREAD....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    (makes a 7 day work week of night shifts worth it.... being able to play at something that is FUN)


    OK...so I need a life....I just can't find one that suits my schedule! :p :confused: :eek: :(
     
  7. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 2,041
    Likes: 117, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1818
    Location: Cape Town South Africa

    Manie B Senior Member

    Code:
    Trouble often happens when one starts to design boats for sale or for commercial use, without basic knwledge and experience. I have few samples of such 'boats' sitting in marina next to us... 
    nevermind strange designs

    you cannot and will not believe some of the utter crap that some of our local builders push out

    worst of all is that they "copied" plans from well known designers
    but not to worry they are all going out of business anyway

    and the volumes are so low that the designers did not really loose money in royalties
    it is just frikken annoying
    and thanks to the internet and free software the buyers can soon see who is the chancers

    every second pisscat at our yacht clubs is a design expert
    they all know everything all the time
     
  8. apex1

    apex1 Guest


    THATS QUITE OBVIOUS MATE!!!


    But that was the reason starting this thread. And you do´nt rain on my parade! As long as we all have a little fun and some may learn a bit it´s worth it! I must not have the feeling of being superior, I´m the boss all day long, this is my recreational time.
    So contribute, contradict, consume, pick your choice. But stay nice and novice friendly, please.

    And sorry again audience, we must postpone the next lesson. Will be less busy on tuesday.

    And just to be fair:
    you can use Delftship instead of Freeship if you like, in principle it is the same programme but Delftship you may update later to a "pro" version.
    nice sample hulls too.........

    http://www.delftship.net/

    Regards
    Richard
     
  9. peter radclyffe
    Joined: Mar 2009
    Posts: 1,419
    Likes: 64, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 680
    Location: europe

    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    hello apex, as a designer, what royalty could i reasonably expect for a design, thank you
     
  10. lewisboats
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 2,329
    Likes: 126, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1603
    Location: Iowa

    lewisboats Obsessed Member

    I think I'll always be a novice...there is no money in being a professional! :(

    Delftship is Freeship lite unless you lay out a chunk of cash for the extra modules. No offense to Martjin but I can't afford the extras that were removed from Freeship to make the free version of Delftship. For what I dabble with...Freeship is sufficient. If it can produce usable panels for the hulls I come up with I can live without the extras that might be available in Delftship with its multiple modules. Simple man...simple needs...simple mind...simple software!
     
  11. lewisboats
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 2,329
    Likes: 126, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1603
    Location: Iowa

    lewisboats Obsessed Member

    Are you in exile Monsieur? ;)
     
  12. peter radclyffe
    Joined: Mar 2009
    Posts: 1,419
    Likes: 64, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 680
    Location: europe

    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    what a charming question, lewis, what is your experience of royalties
     
  13. lewisboats
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 2,329
    Likes: 126, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1603
    Location: Iowa

    lewisboats Obsessed Member

    Napoleon thought rather highly of himself nes't pas? :D
     
  14. peter radclyffe
    Joined: Mar 2009
    Posts: 1,419
    Likes: 64, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 680
    Location: europe

    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    is that your opinion of me
     

  15. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    None, if you really follow my advice! Not much more if you go professional. But up to 15% of the total construction cost if you become fancy.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.