Stand Up Paddleboard--on foils!

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Doug Lord, May 1, 2016.

  1. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    Obviously the video is edited. I am SOOOO sick of quick video cuts being used to replace real action! I am certain that those dozen or less glides were the best moments of at least four hours shooting. The absence of any lift-off footage leads me to conclude that 'foiling SUP' is a bold marketing lie.

    We could do some estimates of what conditions would be needed for liftoff. In my mind I am thinking about the paddling power it would take to accelerate from displacement speed of that short board to foiling in the span of less than half a wavelength. If it takes a tow-in this is a flat out scam.
     
  2. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member

  3. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    There is a glide ratio -to get enough lift to support foiling takes so much thrust. If there was zero apparent wind but the upwelling of the wave was enough to counter the glide descent he could foil continuously. Wave speed does not have to be foiling speed. He can diagonal like a surfer but the upwell still need to be the more than the critical rate.

    There have been numerous human power foiling craft, but the most a fit athlete can do is 20 to 30 minutes in the teens from what I have seen and that was a pedal prop.

    The Moth has brought far more advanced foils. I don't know if it is enough to extend human powered foiling significantly, but the moth is much more advanced than previous HP attempts I have seen.
     
  4. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    =======================
    The guy says it was a 10 mile run and I believe him-that means one start and one stop. Kai has the skills and I say congratulations!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QfFRvd7H6I
     
  5. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    I think you misinterpreted what he is saying. "10 mile run" refers to a race length. A sentence or two later he refers to "glides" in the hundreds of yards which I interpret as foiling.

    I sure would like to see even one liftoff unassisted.
     
  6. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    SUP on Foils!

    No , it was a 10 mile run-not a race. And I'm really sure that the "glides" were cuts he made side to side relative to a straight-line from where he started and where he finished.
     
  7. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    So if it's continuous, Doug, what happens to the Go Pro he uses in one shot, but doesn't have in other shots? A "10 mile run" in SUPping doesn't imply going non stop, any more than it does on land.

    What it will mean for SUPping is another thing. The fact that Kai can do something in Hawaii doesn't many most people can do it - Kai can do this in Hawaii but most people can't. And no, I'm not one of those who believes this is a fake. For a start, it was done years ago; see the vid at http://www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/SUP/The-future/?page=3

    This could be a good thing for sailing. One of SUPping's great strengths seems to have been its accessibility and simplicity. If SUPping becomes more expensive and elitist, as it probably will if it pushes foiling as "the future" as some have, it will be a less dangerous competitor to sailing.
     
  8. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    Kai talks as if he will be allowed to use a foiling board against conventional boards in SUP races -which seems unlikely. On the mainland SUP races have classes that limit length. Why would they allow foils? They are intended to be athletic tests. As far as I know Hawaii is the only place they have deep water, down wind, down wave races.

    As I said pages ago, I am pretty sure this is deceptive marketing to call this SUP not surf.

    I think you are paranoid if you see SUP as any threat to sailing. I don't even see foiling as anything significant to SUP. I see it as an amusing use of a foiling windsurf board on rare occasions -leave the sail and take the paddle.
     
  9. portacruise
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    portacruise Senior Member

    My opinion is that it will be a tiny niche market product in it's final evolved form, which will quietly decrease after some excitement. Just too many issues with Foils compared to benefits in general, vs conventional craft. That underwater leg would seem to be like a magnet for near surface debris.

    PC
     
  10. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    I think I see SURFING and maybe some leg pumping.
     
  11. CT249
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    CT249 Senior Member

    Calling SUPping "dangerous" may have been an overstatement in an edit, but there's no need for you to be rude. There certainly are former sailors who are getting their water fix SUPping these days because sailing and windsurfing are getting too complex. In the past sit on top kayaks DID take a large market share from windsurfing, according to Tim Niemier and others who were there, and it may not be a coincidence that sailing started to lose numbers when SOTs and SUPs became more popular. Apart from anything else, it gives dealers an easier option than selling sailing.
     
  12. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    No reason (or intent) to be rude -I apologize if that is how it sounded.

    I know that SOT and SUP have grown recently, and I can see your point about retailers dedicating more space and effort to them. I think the difference in our views has a lot to do with the low density of sailors in the US. Any new paddler here is not likely to have been a sailor.

    I am looking at it the other way -sailing is a great upgrade to paddling. Nobody appreciates a sail more than someone who has paddled a few miles. I have a little 10ft X 32inch beam kayak I am adding sailing capability to that can convert quickly on the water. It won't have the light wind ability of a proper sailboat but it will paddle efficiently in nothing and sail upwind when there is enough wind to impede paddling. I agree complexity is holding sailing back, but I see it more like a ratio of all the cost and effort to maintain the equipment per the time enjoying the activity. Too few places have reliable wind so that tips the scale to activities that are ready when they have the time.
     
  13. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    There is a new FAQ section and a video showing him getting up on the foils by paddling -to catch a wave.

    The most interesting point I see is that the they say the foiling starts at 4 to 6 knots 'depending on wave' which is a surprisingly low takeoff speed. That is a reasonable sprint paddling speed and I wonder if anyone has been able to foil on flat water.

    http://gofoil.com/faq/
     
  14. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Foiling Revolution!

    Just another excellent example of the incredible Foiling Revolution sweeping all forms of watercraft led by the extraordinary applications of foils to sailing monohull dinghies, keelboats, multihulls, kiteboards and windsurfers. Most exciting time to be alive!
    Way to go Kai!!!

    PS- good find skyak-put the hammer down hard on the "faker" theory!
     

  15. Westview
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    Westview Junior Member


    I see a stiff wind at his back , he is in some kind of constricted channel so the water conditions are providing additional lift.

    Let's see him do it in flat water , no wind , no current and for longer than several seconds .... oh and no tow to get up to speed :lol
     
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