Solving the Energy Issue - a new technical age

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by capt_jack, Jul 8, 2010.

  1. capt_jack
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    capt_jack Junior Member

    A great deal of our current societies technology base came from the US Space program. In addition to the numerous new materials and complex solutions developed which were specific to the program, a great many inventions were made which never became part of the Moon program.

    The US Congress set aside something like 9 billion dollars for the program (around 36 billion in today's dollars). Engineering and technology firms rushed to compete for their share of the funds - a contest that helped build some of the largest defense contractors and industrial corporations still around today.

    This was a project of "new technology". Solutions were needed for new problems and a great deal of "blue sky" invention took place as engineers came up with solutions for problems NASA hadn't even proposed yet. This pre-emptive type of development resulted in a lot of companies giving their scientists and engineers a percentage of paid time to work on anything they wanted to with the provision it would belong to the company. (The integrated circuit came out of a program like this at Texas Instruments, for example). Google still has a program like this today for it's programmers which contributes a great deal of talent to open source software projects.

    New energy solutions are expensive to develop and even advances we already know are possible are currently pursued only by the major government labs. The problem is that our modern market means companies will not invest the huge amounts of capital into new inventions without a substantial degree of projected success.

    The Moon program worked because the companies of that time had a source of funding available to them. The Taxpayers basically agreed to write the checks.

    I'm afraid the only we way can make the next technical leap as a society is for the public to fund that development. Our only other hope is for a "suppressed" technology to be released in some way or for a "cheap" solution to be discovered by a small, independent type firm. (There are other reasons besides available funds for large companies to elect not to pursue alternative energy).

    If the taxpayers once again agreed to put up billions of dollars for clean, affordable energy I have a feeling the solutions would be found. At some point competition would bring inventions off the shelf as worry that "someone else will release it if we don't" becomes a factor.

    Then again, it's always possible the funding just might lead to new developments in a variety of disciplines just as it did back in the 60's.
     
  2. WickedGood

    WickedGood Guest

    Lets do the Time Warp Again

    Its not the taxpayers that have a problem with investing OUR Tax money into the space program.

    Its BoBo the Monkey who is in charge of pissing away all of our hard earned money wto his buddies in wastefull stimulas programs.

    I think if you take a Vote ( Yes we should do this on Nov 2nd) that you will find thet the American Taxpayer supports the Space Program and NASA.

    Just think, If it were not for the Space program developing high tech materials we would never have been able to obtain products like these!

    [​IMG]
     
  3. capt_jack
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    capt_jack Junior Member

    I'm not sure a return to the Moon program is ambitious enough. The most beneficial results would be gained in a program that pushes the envelope a bit more - say a Mars expedition or some type of space mining program (a Moon base would be the first step in these but rather than just performing a repeat of the last Apollo missions the program goals should be further reaching, IMO).

    We have many of the same costs and starting environments for both types of missions so why not get our money's worth and start establishing a Moon base from the get go?

    An HE3 mining operation would be a good start and I know of at least two energy companies would could contribute massive amounts of capital to such an enterprise. (It sure would be n ice to see the huge profits the biggest oil companies have made in the past decades being reinvested into new, clean energy).

    With all the forward movement in the private sector towards commercial space development I'm a bit surprised Exxon or some other multi-national company isn't talking to NASA about a joint space program.

    If petroleum based energy truly is a finite resource on the decline why aren't they busy looking for a replacement product?

    We obtained the greatest technological progress from the Moon program because it required so much "new" technology. An Apollo refresh isn't enough. We need new problems in order to drive development of new solutions. A moon base and Mars expedition will require improved life support technologies which should translate into new energy, food and water management systems we can use here on Earth.

    Mankind will mine the heavens eventually if we're still around. It's only a question of when. According to our scientists a society that establishes off World bases will develop clean, sustainable energy as a byproduct.
     
  4. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    masalai masalai

    Lets face facts, Good ole USA is Busted, Broke and so far in debt a black hole looks positive...
    http://www.usdebtclock.org/ for a true picture of your current economic status (well less some additional "off the book" stuff not yet found, like "WHERE IS THE GOLD?"
    http://www.shadowstats.com/ for a rewired look at some Government stats to "pre Clinton" methodology - still not the full and honest picture.
    There are also lots of other factors in the once FREE and mighty state of mind called USA and claimed by the inhabitants as "America" but it is actually USA inhabited by USAnians, but so what - semantics...

    Now for an AUDIT, What resources can be tapped to get things to restart - a workforce that was renown for its innovative and can-do attitude - sadly lacking of late as the imposts and heavy burden of government taxes, fraud, manipulation and crony-ism have made this newly legislated Fascist State almost totally unproductive and what is touted as "Developing business" is not much better than stupidity, like spending billions on a PV solar array (a USGovt grant) in the middle of a desert in USA and the complex HV grid systems to distribute that energy can barely cope with present loadings/demand... The DEBACLE in the gulf is NEWS EMBARGOED in USA, with heavy penalties for reporting on same ???

    What I have been preaching for, (and to a slightly lesser degree this applies to Australia and elsewhere), is
    1) - the need to expunge the corrupt systems in Government and Business..
    2) - for the citizens to get back to basic community roots of co-operative community living..
    3) - Growing food locally, becoming totally self sufficient in smaller communities..

    (money is circulated locally and not exported to pay for imports that could be supplied locally..)

    4) - Develop this sense of "local" to encourage vehicle repair/servicing..
    5) - encourage local Appliance repair and servicing..
    6) - encourage local manufacture of gadgets and gizmos that are actually sensible, simple, useful and value for money..

    This will force corrupt systems to fail and human ingenuity will be allowed to develop and succeed...

    Just do an audit, and answer honestly, the following... When your municipality declares bankruptcy and cannot pay the police, and other expected and existing services, WILL YOU HAVE A RELIABLE SUPPLY OF
    a) - potable water
    b) - electricity
    c) - garbage removal
    d) - sewerage systems operational
    e) - police and court systems to protect the innocent/victims?
    f) - telephone/internet services
    g) - gas and heating oil (remember most of the refining plants in USA are well past their operational lifespan, and the technicians are OLD)
    h) - Are your roads and mail services likely to continue as is for much longer?
    i) - How much food is IMPORTED, How much refined fuel (diesel, heating oil, Gas) is IMPORTED (as a percentage of total food/fuel consumption)
    j) - How far must food be transported to reach stores in your community?

    GET OUT and look at the status yourselves and speak to people who should know and will give an HONEST answer... The situation is NOT a bed of sweet scented rose petals...

    In less than 200 years of global industrial GROWTH we have depleted the resources of the earth that are easy to get... To survive we as humans must learn to live within our means as growth for growth's sake IS NOT THE ANSWER in a finite world, and reaching out to "conquer" another planet is ********... George "Doubleyer" is supposed to have set up his ranch for total self-sufficiency during his Presidency is your community prepared?

    For the forseeable future, this little planet is our LIFEBOAT, - Failure to look after her with all due respect, will see our children's children drown in an unforgiving sea of DESOLATION...
     
  5. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    We need to either drum, row or bail this boat. We must design a seaworthy solution to this dilemna between the Devil and the deep blue sea or we will have Hell to pay. We must keep the thread in some way relating to boat design because we can't always let Frosty have the last word.
     
  6. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Let this retarded thread die.
     
  7. capt_jack
    Joined: Jun 2010
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    capt_jack Junior Member

    If you want every thread to be only boat design related I'd suggest avoiding the OPEN DISCUSSION "Introduce yourself and enjoy friendly conversation with other forum members on topics related to boating in general" section....
     
  8. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    Come on Mark, humour me and actually go out and ask the questions a) to j) and seek honest and sensible answers... I live a long long way away and must rely on other peoples views and research...

    All I ask is some due diligence and an honest response, not a load of waffle and denigration... The number of US States verging on what is sometimes referred to as in severe sovereign debt and on the verge of total financial collapse, is a quite alarming situation that should not be denied, as remedies and responses need to be prepared by the people, even if the government is incapable of thinking of anything else, other than borrowing even more money to provide even more bailout money, for no real net benefit or capacity to resolve the great problems and difficulties that confront us all in some way or another...

    Denial that this "LIFEBOAT EARTH" is in the middle of a catastrophic storm will not do you nor anyone else any service...
     
  9. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    capt jack,
    Thanks for the words of common sense... On the Energy side I recall hearing of a project promoted by Matt Simmons, a well regarded expert on global oil supplies http://www.allbusiness.com/energy-utilities/utilities-industry-electric-power-power/13779628-1.html - I lost track of the original proposal presentation...

    Ammonia can be used as a fuel in most CI (compression ignition?) engines... - It seems Europe and other countries may have gotten a lead on USA as the "rabid greenies" seem bent on stopping the Maine Project?
    http://www.smartplanet.com/technology/blog/thinking-tech/ammonia-is-the-smarter-hydrogen/2132/
    http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Topic/75589/Bungendore_Wind_Farm_output.aspx
    http://wcco.com/local/wind.fertilizer.plant.2.1740965.html
    http://canada.theoildrum.com/node/6079
    as opposed to the USA media which has this negative... http://article.wn.com/view/2010/06/25/Coalition_sues_feds_over_Cape_Cod_wind_farm_e/
     
  10. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Don't need any more socialist tripe. Keep the government out of it.
    Just because NASA was once great, doesn't mean the piece of **** in the Whitehouse wud restore it. NASA's number one priority under Obama is to make Muslims feel good about themselves http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=7331.5885.0.0 . We must get out of debt and it isn't going to happen with a program to spend. STOP SPENDING, LOWER TAXES, BUSINESS WILL TAKE OVER, THE ECONOMY WILL RECOVER, THEN we can talk about Mars, energy, etc.. This is not the time for this talk. Stop it. I'm in no mood to give yet another econ lesson.
     
  11. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    Some seem to think the topic is worthwhile, - so let the freedom of expression be pursued in the name of getting a broader understanding...

    I have no interest in "socialist tripe" as I am more a "libertarian" and do not pay any additional taxes than are legally due...

    The Government is IN IT, right up to their elbows and snouts, engorging at the feeding trough of GREED - CORRUPTION (legalised in USA and called Lobbyists and as inclusions in legislation), so kindly get off your sanctimonious and poorly directed horse... Ask why the CFTC is unable to process any legal action against illegal trading activity - even when they have all the evidence of MASSIVE FRAUD and MARKET MANIPULATION GIVEN TO THEM at a public hearing? Because your Government has FIXED IT legislatively, so the guilty cannot be prosecuted... If you see fit to defend that action then I feel sorry for you, and pray for your soul...
     
  12. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    You knuckleheads can have at it.
     
  13. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Stop blaming EVERYTHING on US. GREED and CORRUPTION are old terms which appeared in the Holy Bible long before America was discovered by the honourable Christopher Columbus, one of my favorite admirals.
     
  14. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    See my response as posted in the link at the foot of every post... (If the cap fits.... ? and all the fingers point? What can one say but the truth as it is exposed... Just look at the FACTS... and taken in context, as I am not a speed typist, and also disinclined to run through the whole background and links pertaining to making that honest assessment based on available and reliable data gleaned from within USA as well as global analysis by reputable professionals...)



    capt Jack,
    Have you any questions and ideas on recovery? Are there any commercial opportunities being built in USA - There was a recent announcement of one company involved in PV cell manufacture trebling one plant and building a greenfields plant somewhere else in USA but MUCH larger... These sort of news stories make a brief announcement here in Australia but no real follow-up so much of the detail is lost...

    What of the deep-water wind farm off the Maine coast? - The idea seemed very interesting and innovative with a couple of big names supporting the concept... Lost on my radar - even a google search was ineffective...
     

  15. ancient kayaker
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    1. Jail the crooks
    2. Stop crapping on your president - he's no worse than any of the others you've had
    3. Tighten up investment and lending laws
    4. Let Canada take over your banks - USA is supposed to be all about free enterprise
    5. Don't expect Canada to reciprocate!
    6. Don't think it's going to be fixed quickly - that's how you got into this mess *
    7. Get tough on Big Oil: it won't do anything for the situation but it will distract the public

    * recovery isn't about coming up with magic new technologies, it's about stability, fairness and justice
     
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