Solomon Technologies - "Electric Wheel" electric motor propulsion systems

Discussion in 'Hybrid' started by lockhughes, Jun 18, 2002.

  1. Alaskagator
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    Alaskagator New Member

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    BOATMIK Deeply flawed human being

    Patent Error

    I agree, the purpose of patents is to protect novel ideas. There is no requirement to prove that the idea works or is economically viable or anything practical.

    You can patent any idea so long as it is not similar to something that is
    1/ Currently well known
    2/ something already patented.

    Patents are a form of registration only. You pay some money to get the registration.

    Then if you can show the idea works and is useful, then you have proof that you thought of it by a particular date - it is YOUR idea.

    Note that if someone else can prove they thought of the idea first EVEN IF THEY DON'T HAVE A PATENT (eg through a dateable photo or other dateable evidence) then your patent will be proven invalid.

    If you submit an idea that the patent office thinks is impractical they will warn you that they think it will not work, but if you insist they will be happy to take your money for your idea even if they think it won't work.


  3. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Peripheral Prop Drives/Motors

    In an effort to 'tie' some of these electric drive discussions together at times at various intersections,
    I thought this subject matter might well be integrated in this subject thread as it appears as though there are some number of new 'Peripheral Driven Prop' arrangements coming on line and/or being researched. These concepts lend themselves well to the electric driven concept.

    I posted this message on another forum today,

    "Exciting New EPS Thruster (& Propulsion)"

    The results of the Design at METS awards, announced at this morning's Breakfast Briefing, appear to prove that the wheel can be reinvented according to the Jury, who named the EPS Silent Thruster from Van der Velden Marine Systems of the Netherlands as the overall winner.

    This product redefines the bow thruster, eliminating the usual arrangement of a central hub and gearbox. It instead uses exchangeable blades that are connected to an outer ring; this floats on ceramic bearings and is powered by an integral motor in the casing. The solution is elegant, well designed, and promises a number of advantages over conventional concepts
    ....from their website...

    In addition to fixed thrusters they are now working on retractable systems as well as
    utilizing the concept of the EPS as a means of propulsion !!

    I posted this as well, "Maybe the ceramic bearings aren't all of the technology that has allowed the emergence of this new propulser. It appears as though the preipheral drive power is an electric motor of some sort integrated into the outer ring. This would make sense with all of the new talk of diesel/electric systems."

    ....for more visit
  4. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

  5. caribmon
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    caribmon Junior Member

    Another angle... on the subject....

    Electric Drives - Propulsion of the Future

    by Richard Kastelein

    In my opinion, electric powered boats have definite advantages. They are environmentally friendly, and very quiet; they run with only a whisper of sound. They are reef friendly, quiet in harbours, are cheaper to run and emit no pollutants.

    So why are we still using fossil fuels and Marine diesel engines to provide propulsion for ocean going vessels?

    Consider the typical internal-combustion engine. From the time a charge of fuel ignites in a cylinder, it has to push pistons, turn a crankshaft, turn a camshaft, open valves, pump water, pump oil, turn an alternator, and submit to reduction from a transmission to step the engine's thousands of revolutions down to something a propeller can use. By the time that's done, the engine's efficiency is somewhere below 25 percent. Also, diesel engines are rated at their maximum rpm - and on sailboats are rarely operated at that speed.


    By contrast the the efficiency of Solomon Technologies' electric motor is a percentage in the low 90s. Here's how it works: When the system is switched on, DC current from the batteries enters an electronic controller, which produces expanding and contracting magnetic fields in the motor's stator windings. These magnetic fields attract and repel the fields from three permanent magnets, made from neo-dymium iron boron, that are attached to the rotor.

    The controller electronically modulates the pulse width to increase or decrease speed. At 13 inches wide, the motor provides ample contact with the shaft to produce high torque at low rpm, enough for the motor to turn particularly large propellers. Fixed three-bladed 18/18 (diameter/pitch, in inches) propellers are typical in many of STI's installations. From the flowing electrons to the turning prop, the shaft passes through only two bearings and a stern gland - and no transmission, all of which accounts for its high efficiency. Furthermore, with the electric motor, the relationship between rpm and torque is linear: You can use it to turn the boat's prop at 1 rpm or 10 rpm or 50 rpm or 100 rpm. An internal-combustion engine needs to cross an rpm threshold before its propeller is put in gear; otherwise, it would stall.


    Probably the most amazing aspect of the STI's electric drive is its ability to produce electricity with a low-speed, high-output alternator driven by the prop shaft when a boat is under sails. In other words, the device is converting the prop's rotation into stored energy.



    Other new developments in this area of Electric drives are being addressed with companies such as ASMO Marine and Fischer-Panda for utilising electric propulsion in production craft as well as Fast Electric Systems and MW Line in Switzerland for using straight electric drives in larger vessels.

    For those that prefer a little more muscle in terms of power - and would prefer to have a dual propulsion system - the hybrid diesel-electric may be the answer. Whilst it's more environmentally friendly - straight electric is not practical for some commercial operators, powercats and motorsailors for a variety of reasons including availability of shorepower, horsepower issues, or lack of a backup system.

    For those who prefer a dual system there's a couple of options.

    One is using DC generator input for electric drives. What's the difference in fueling up a DC generator with diesel to top up batteries in order to directly drive a propulsion system ... and just using a normal diesel engine? Lots.

    There is a huge amount of savings in terms of fuel consumption as well as a much quieter generator as opposed to a chugging diesel. The emission differences are also significant. The downside is the size and weight of the battery banks needed and more money initially invested (which is eventually recouped through fuel savings). The DC Whispergen is powered by a Stirling engine that needs no oil, is almost completely silent... it operates unobtrusively with a noise level similar to a domestic air-conditioner.

    Lightweight, compact and efficient, the WhisperGen converts over 90% of the fuel supplied into heat and electricity.

    Then there's the Vetus option - where electric propulsion is integrated into the diesel engine much like the hybrid cars one sees on the road today. The general idea is to use the diesel engine when you want the power and switch to electric propulsion when you want some peace and quiet. When motoring under diesel power, the electric motor, driven by the diesel engine, functions as a dynamo, charging the batteries for the next round of electric propulsion. It's a nifty system.


    This technology is more than viable... the US military is planning to shift over a significant proportion of their vehicles to hybrid technology in the future. The Humvee will be replaced by the more efficient Shadow RST-V - which is the US Marine Corps' first 4x4 hybrid-electric tactical vehicle.

    Richard Kastelein
    Avante Yachts LTDA
  6. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Glacier Bay's Systems

    Glacier Bay has adopted a whole systems approach to this relatively new diesel-electric technology for small vessels. By systems I am referring to the production end of the system with in-house diesel/electric DC generators, then the output end with DC motors to power the craft, run air-con, refrigeration. and more to come.

    This could mean not having to search around for different manufacturers of the various components and worrying about the electrical compatability of these various units from different sources. With time hopfully the field will open up with more suppliers and more compatability.

    Meanwhile here are a couple of PDF files on Glacier Bay's stuff that aren't readily found on their site surprisingly.

    These explain some of the basics.
  7. caribmon
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    caribmon Junior Member

    Let's look at Hydrogen Fuel Cells...

    Welcome to the future in powering the next generation of yachts
    by Richard Kastelein

    Red text is linked to websites as are logos.

    There are a number of reasons why we could see the emergence of Fuel Cell Technology (FCT) affecting the marine industry - and interestingly enough - it will most likely be wedged in from from the consumer and government demographics, and not from industry. Amongst government pencil pushers there is an increasing concern for more legislation to reduce marine based harbour pollution. And since the marine industry has a history of being early adopters of new technologies (see GPS systems), it may be the low hanging fruit for the next generation of boatbuilders.

    There is strong lobbying in the middle to high-end luxury cruising market to create electric only bodies of water - which is also a force.

    Hydrogen: it’s the fuel of the future.

    Not only does it reduces our dependency on fossil fuels - which are priced sky high and not looking to come down with huge increases in demand from China and India for oil - it also eliminates pollution and has within it the power to protect our planet’s air, oceans, and inland waters.

    The revolutionary hydrogen-based power and propulsion systems being developed today will provide tomorrow’s yachtsmen with a clean-energy alternative that delivers benefits far beyond the reach of traditional internal combustion engines.

    But, like any new technology that relies on a large distribution network, fuel cells have always been plagued with the where do I fuel up? factor and pricing.

    This problem may very well be conquered in the near future as crude prices continue to rise and boaters are forced to alternatives - therefore marine 'gas stations' will start stocking hydrogen, methanol, alcohol and other choices.


    HaveBlue (USA), are working not only on fuel cells but also employing an onboard hydrogen production system for power provision when the tanks are empty.

    This hydrogen comes from either shore based power, or onboard wind / solar system. So far their prototype, XV1 sailboat demonstrator, has been launched and went through extensive trials during 2005. The current 2005 cost of the fuel cell and fuel production system is, according to HaveBlue, US$300,000 - $500,000, making it currently impractical for most purposes... but it is predicted to be substantially be reduced over the next six years. Commercial models are expected in 2006. HaveBlue’s current fuel cell is a Hydrogenics 10kW HyPM PEM unit from Ovonic Hydrogen .


    Marine Fuel Cells (MFC) from Max Power are in interesting new addition to the market. They are popular in Germany and distributed by the all-powerful Plastimo marine network. They are ecologically friendly and certainly have the capacity to cut into the fossil fuel trade. And more importantly, the fuel cartridges are being distributed through Plastimo's networks and are expected to soon be available at most marine petrol stations in the near future - most likely in Europe.


    It’s still a bit pricey at US$10 per day (a cartridge costs US$30.00 and lasts three days) to run the MFG - it is a competitive player and provides clean power. Having said that, the rising cost of fuel (petrol is over US$6 a gallon in the Netherlands) will certainly add to the attraction of the MFC.

    There are no moving parts and its byproduct is simply a small quantity of carbon dioxide, a bit of pure water & some heat. And Unlike other types of fuel cells (like generic Polymer Electrolyte Membrane (PEM) fuel cells) which require pure hydrogen as a fuel, methanol-based fuel cells enable this electrochemical process without the need to reform complex hydrocarbon fuel molecules (including methanol) into pure hydrogen.

    What is a MFC you ask?


    An MFC is a device that converts the chemical energy of a methanol and an oxidant (air or oxygen) into electricity. In principle, a fuel cell operates like a battery. However, unlike a battery however, a fuel cell does not run down or require recharging. It will produce electricity and heat as long as methanol and an oxidizer are supplied.

    An MFC can supply power for all 12v on board equipment providing power while in an idyllic anchorage or on a long passage in total silence for the ever-increasing list of 12v equipment; electronics, refrigerators, microwaves, inverters and even water makers all of which are being fitted to sailing and power yachts.

    The MFC can deliver 100 amps per day of clean 12v DC power. The unit is compact and easy to use… and installation is rapid with no need for insulation, wet exhausts or cooling water inlets.

    “But 100 amps per day isn't 2 kilowatts!!”

    You’re right it is not, it's 50 watts, but your 2 kilowatts genset is only running for 2 hours every 24 hours at the most. So that's already only 166 watts in 24 hour terms. Then add to that the 220v to 12v battery charger efficiency (about 50%) further reduces that to 83 watts in 12v fuel cell terms. Then you have the charge efficiency to include in your calculation.

    Capable of running 24 hours a day, the fuel cell continually supplies power as needed. This "constant power" approach reduces the charge/discharge cycles imposed on house batteries, thereby significantly increasing their service life. Its power output therefore needs to be considered over a 24 hour period. This is a revolution in yacht power management as up until now yachts needed to store power generated in a short period for use over the day.

    Power from the main engine, a generator, or shore power were the only dependable power source a yacht had. None of these could run 24 hours day and all had a high nuisance factor. A fuel cell is producing power constantly 24 hours a day and the yacht is consuming power 24 hours a day. This means that your battery bank is only there to supply, momentary surges in power consumption & stock excess fuel cell power for future momentary surges. In a word - you never really discharge your batteries, they are constantly held at between 70-85 per cent of their full charge. Most of the time equipment such as the fridge and electronics or autopilot are in effect being powered directly through the fuel cell.


    MTU and Ballard were first to develop and build a yacht worldwide with a certified (German Lloyd) fuel cell propulsion system. "No 1", as the boat has been called, is completely emission and noise-free and the nautical propulsion system is completely environmentally friendly. This is particularly significant for Lake Constance, where the boat is based as its the largest drinking water reservoir in Europe and supplies water to millions of people.

    For those that are serious about utilising fuel cell technology in a big way on larger yachts - Ballard of British Columbia are global leaders in proving larger scale solutions (cars, trucks and busses) starting at one KW. Ballard also supplies the fuel cell modules for the Mercedes Benz A-Class fuel cell vehicles. In terms of integrating hydrogen fuel cells as mean of power for a boat - Ballard already has the solution. See the Ballard presentation by clicking here.

    Other links...


    The Hydrogenics HyPM fuel cell power module establishes the benchmark in commercialized multi-kilowatt fuel cell power modules. The versatile HyPM has been recognized as a superior packaged fuel cell power solution by world leading Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) and system integrators and is well-suited for today's early adopting markets over a wide range of applications.

    HyPM's versatility is highlighted by its outstanding performance either as a standalone power generator or as a primary component in a hybrid configuration when combined with electrical storage devices such as batteries or ultracapacitors.


    Millennium Cell specialised in hydrogen battery technology for portable devices - in both the military and industrial sectors. Portable electronic devices used in the military, medical, industrial and consumer markets all require a better battery. To meet this challenge, Millennium Cell is developing hydrogen battery technology in partnership with corporate and government entities. Based in Eatontown, New Jersey, Millennium Cell employs 40 people, primarily in technology development.


    I think a marine adaptation of Plug Power's GenSys™ would be very interesting... it's combined heat and power fuel cell systems are designed to generate continuous, clean, efficient and reliable power on-site. Operating in parallel with the normal land-based grid, GenSys systems convert readily available fuels into electricity and heat for stationary applications.


    Every link you will ever need for fuel cell technology is likely found by clicking here or on the Fuel Cell Today logo above.

    So what is a fuel cell anyway?

    A ‘Fuel Cell’ is a device that converts the chemical energy of a fuel (hydrogen, natural gas, methanol, gasoline, etc.) and an oxidant (air or oxygen) into electricity.

    In principle, a fuel cell operates like a battery. Unlike a battery however, a fuel cell does not run down or require recharging. It will produce electricity and heat as long as fuel and an oxidizer are supplied.

    Both batteries and fuel cells are electrochemical devices. As such both have a positively charged anode and a negatively charged cathode and an ion-conducting material called an electrolyte. Fuel cells are classified by their electrolyte material. Electrochemical devices generate electricity without combustion of the fuel and oxidizer, as opposed to what occurs with traditional methods of electricity generation.

    Fuel cell construction generally consists of a fuel electrode (anode) and an oxidant electrode (cathode) separated by an ion-conducting membrane. Oxygen passes over one electrode, and hydrogen over the other, generating electricity, water and heat. Fuel cells chemically combine the molecules of a fuel and oxidizer without burning or having to dispense with the inefficiencies and pollution of traditional combustion.

    Fuel Cell Functionality

    Fuel cells generate electricity from a simple electrochemical reaction in which an oxidizer, typically oxygen from air, and a fuel, typically hydrogen, combine to form a product, which is water for the typical fuel cell. Oxygen (air) continuously passes over the cathode and hydrogen passes over the anode to generate electricity, by-product heat and water. The fuel cell itself has no moving parts – making it a quiet and reliable source of power.

    Fuel Cells vs. Traditional Electricity Methods

    In traditional methods of generating electricity, the fuel and air are burned, generating a high-temperature gas. In the case of a coal-burning power plant, heat is transferred from this hot gas to high pressure liquid water that is boiled. In the case of a gasoline, diesel or gas turbine engine, the hot gas itself is at high pressure. The high-pressure steam, or hot gas, is expanded in a mechanical device (e.g., cylinder, turbine) and ultimately turns an electrical generator.

    In a fuel cell, the same basic chemical reactions occur, but generate electricity directly as an electrochemical device and therefore, never goes through the step of being a high-temperature gas through normal burning. This direct conversion of chemical energy to electrical energy is more efficient and generates much less pollutants than traditional methods that rely on combustion.

    Which is Better?

    As mentioned above, the direct conversion of fuel and air to electricity is much more efficient than internal combustion engines and other methods of generating electricity. Therefore, fuel cells can generate more electricity from the same amount of fuel.

    Furthermore, by skipping the combustion process that occurs in traditional power-generating methods, the generation of pollutants during the combustion process is avoided. Some of the pollutants that are significantly lower for fuel cells are oxides of nitrogen and unburned hydrocarbons, (which together cause ground-level ozone), and carbon monoxide (a poisonous gas).

    Richard Kastelein
    Avante Yachts LTDA
  8. yipster
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    yipster designer

    the fuel of the future
    and all that say its not available, hard to store and transport or to expensive, i'll answer:
    look at the sun
  9. yipster
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    yipster designer

    Thanks for the emerging technology’s breakdown Richard, well sorted out interesting stuff now or soon available. Let me explain my thoughts a little: The ultimate source for hydrogen is water and only when H is burned with O we can speak of a truly clean reaction back to H2O. While trying to rebuild a 220v digital TV receiver to12v I was sputtering why analog senders are taken out of the sky in favour of digitally jammed signals we can only decode against payment I was thinking of hydrogen I was reading about again. I don’t think it matters much if we use power balls or cartridges, capsules, litres or gallons, oxide pellets or other commercial tricks. Point is we want energy, lots of it and as cheap as possible. I think it would make much more sense to have a boat sail on hydrogen than a city bus since more than half the price of hydrogen today is in transport and storage. I know that today’s lowest cost hydrogen is a by product of chemical factory’s but self made hydrogen is already almost as cheap as gas at the pump nowadays. (assuming 4 times more energy in hydrogen than regular) In my imagination a boat should be able to produce and use H and O autonomously in a closed circle where the engine works on both. Ok maybe a little extra hybrid energy. Often I wonder if such a system isn’t already available, to me it seems so easy, H is the simplest atom around, a bit of electron manipulation must be within our grasp. I was cleaning out my book shelf’s and came across Disney’s 1959 “our frend the atom” I opened and started reading…

    Why is the atom so big? Rutherford discovered in 1911 the positive charged atom ( proton, atom weight 1 ) before that time negative electrons already were measured to be 2000 times lighter. In those days of uranium and radium, hydrogen did not get much attention. One positive proton and one negative electron together is Hydrogen, the basic and simplest atom. If these two H atom parts were as big as marbles and placed 50 meters apart the proton and electron of one hydrogen atom would be attracted to each other by a forge of 400 million tons. Niels Bohr and Einstein quarrelled over this model. Nature keeps the two separated by gravity. When scaled back from marbles to reality forges are smaller also but still incredible big. Bohr calculated the negative electron has to rotate the positive proton at least 7000 billion times a sec to stay in orbit and in this fast flight the electron forms a peel. In a way like the fast turning blades of a prop form a disk. Bohr’s model solved the big volume of the atom that actually consist of two tiny parts. It also explains how Rutherfords fast alpha particles could enter the atom trough its peel, like shooting bullets trough a proppellor. When 2 H atoms collide the protons never toutch. The electron(s) makes the atom behave like a hard small bal. H is the simplest and most common atom and when atoms join other atoms they form a molecule trading electrons. Bohr found most space empty, if all the empty space from a human body could be removed the actual particles would shrink to the size of a sand grain. Or 5000 battleships and aircraft carriers can shrink to the size of a tennis bal while weight would remain, its scary to imagine such an object.. and on and on goes the book to atomic airplanes and the last wish of the fisherman that found the genie in the bottle that granted him tree wishes, his last wish was peace and energy because only than the atom will truly be our frend the book ends.

    I got other books but reading this simple old story now in the bin made me really wonder again what is so difficult…
  10. D'ARTOIS
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    D'ARTOIS Senior Member


    The world is modelled around physical laws. A few have been circumvented whilst staing in full effect - of course the search for another powersource will continue - even against the policies of the general oilindustry and politicians.

    I was ever intrigued by the Wankel engine (Dr Felix Wankel was the only one who got rich of it) till I found out that although the NSU RO80 was the most comfortable car I ever had, had a short lived engine, using a lot of fuel and worn out after 30.000 kms.

    New technologies won't come so quick anymore: the Politicians ( the enemy of mankind) will control everything that gives the human being free mobility (our last resort: sailing boats) even that, bit by bit is taken down: Mare Librum, created by the Dutchman Hugo de Groot in the 17th century, will not excist anymore within a decade to go.

    So even if one finds out something to overcome the H2O problems, the politicians will find their way to block any advantage the citoyen might have.

    Meanwhile, on our estate in France (my sister to be precise) the tractors and generators are already running on biodiesel. It is not legal but the farmers don't care anymore.

    I sincerely hope that someone comes with a solution. I have sported the NSU Wankel and a bit later the Citroen Birotor Engine (only 5000 build) also from Dr Felix - the problem might be that we are looking within the boundaries of the piston engine - the answer might not be there......
  11. cyclops
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    cyclops Senior Member

    Turbines do not have a wide speed / torque range. Parts are outrageous in cost. Most practical types have a piston somewhere.
  12. JonathanCole
    Joined: May 2005
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    JonathanCole imagineer


    We already have most of it solved.

    The energy utilized by humans up to now has mostly been stored as the result of extremely long duration geological processes (petroleum, coal, uranium). All you have to do is extract it from the earth and you have a fuel in a conveniently portable form of storage. It is not hard to make hydrogen, but it is more problematic to store it. The best thing would be if you could store it as water and create hydrogen on demand as you need it. But doing that requires a lot of energy which you would have to store on board the vessel/vehicle. I guess the point I am trying to make is that STORAGE is the difficult part. But many people are working on it and some very promising technologies are prototyped and in development. Many are nanochemical engineering based systems for storing and releasing hydrogen sufficiently densely to compete with liquid fuels. And as Sean says, it must be cost-effective. For example:
    A different class

    Published: 18 November 2005 03:00 PM
    Industry Channel: Chemical & Process
    Source: The Engineer Online

    Using building blocks that make up ordinary plastics, but putting them together in a whole new way, University of Michigan researchers have created a class of lightweight, rigid polymers they predict will be useful for storing hydrogen fuel. The work is described in the current issue of the journal Science.

    The trick to making the new materials, called covalent organic frameworks (COFs), was coaxing them to assume predictable crystal structures, something that never had been done with rigid plastics.
    "Normally, rigid plastics are synthesised by rapid reactions that randomly cross-link polymers," said postdoctoral fellow Adrien Côté, who is first author on the Science paper. "Just as in anything you might do, if you do it really fast, it can get disorganised." For that reason, the exact internal structures of such materials are poorly understood, making it difficult to predict their properties. But Côté and colleagues tweaked reaction conditions to slow down the process, allowing the materials to crystallise in an organised fashion instead of assembling helter skelter.
    As a result, the researchers can use X-ray crystallography to determine the structure of each type of COF they create and, using that information, quickly assess its properties.
    "Once we know the structure and properties, our methodology allows us to go back and modify the COF, making it perform better or tailoring it for different applications," said Côté.
    Côté collaborated on the work with Omar Yaghi, who is the Robert W. Parry Collegiate Professor of Chemistry at U-M. Over the past 15 years, Yaghi has taken a similar approach to producing materials called metal-organic frameworks (MOFs).
    On the molecular level, MOFs are scaffolds made up of metal hubs linked together with struts of organic compounds. By carefully choosing and modifying the chemical components used as hubs and struts, Yaghi and his team have been able to define the angles at which they connect and design materials with the properties they want.
    Like MOFs, COFs can be made highly porous to increase their storage capacity. But unlike MOFs, COFs contain no metals. Instead, they're made up of light elements – hydrogen, boron, carbon, nitrogen and oxygen – that form strong links (covalent bonds) with one another.
    "Using light elements allows you to generate lightweight materials," said Côté. "That's very important for hydrogen fuel storage, because the lighter the material, the more economical it is to transport around in a vehicle. The strong covalent bonds also make COFs very robust materials."
    Although the main thrust of the current research is creating materials for gas storage in fuel cells, Côté, Yaghi and colleagues also are exploring variations of COFs that might be suitable for use in electronic devices or catalytic applications.
    "This is the first step to what we think is going to be a very large and useful class of materials," Côté said.
    Crystalline sheets produced in covalent organic frameworks (COFs)

    Or you can make something with solar energy, like zinc powder that you can put in water to make hydrogen. Like what the Europeans and Israelis are working on:

    Or the Dane's latest approach of storing ammonia in salt tablets which will release hydrogen in the presence of a catalyst:

    The hydrogen economy will be here soon if the evil empire (and I don't mean the soviet union) doesn't suppress the work that is leading us to the solution.
  13. Deering
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Deering Senior Member

    We're currently using fossil fuels at a rate 100,000 times faster then they're being produced. That is how one defines the term "unsustainable".
  14. trouty

    trouty Guest

    The Rockerfellers' Oil Oligarchy, mightn't agree with you!

    I wouldn't be so sure!

    Need I go on?

    The Valerie Plame affair?

    Bob Woodward - didn't have a deep throat - bob Woodward did / does and always has - worked at the NYP for the See Eye Ehh!.

    From getting rid of Kennedy in dealey plaza Texas, to Nixons downfall and the 2000 Stolen election - all orchestrated by the world oil oligarchy...

    You only have to know where to look and how to read between the lines.

    Anyone thinks Di Hydrogen Monoxide is the fuel of the future is deluding themselves.

    I already know what the answer is.

    M = Delta T is the answer you seek.

    Time will be the energy source of the future.

    First you have to ask the right questions to get the right answers.

    If you do, the world oil oligarchy will ensure you end up like all those microbiologists the world over (who were recruited by V Plame) who are now pushin up daisys, since she was Woodward!

    If you can't ask the right questions - you can never get the right answers.

    Sadly - all this was foreseen - by your own "seeress" Jean Dixon, (Prophets are never believed within their own country)...who back in the 60's said something along the lines of:-

    " see the formation of a Governement within the Government, who will bring this country to it's knees. They will control who sits in the Whitehouse and he will be "there man" regardless of which party he comes from - or what idea's / policys he may have - no one but their man will occupy the oval office".

    I could dig out the original qulte I guess - sadly spome 40 years later, it has sadly proven true. Just like her predictions of JFK's and subsequently the other brothers, assassinations.

    There are non so blind as those who don't want to see.

    I fully expect the US willl sink into another civil war, over the situation it now finds itself in.

    It wouldn't surprise me to see the USA represented in the future by 5 presidents each representing 10 states - in order to avoid a repeat of the hopeless situation it now finds itself in.

    Then again - some think I'm certifiable!:D

    Crazy I may be! - but stooopid - i ain't!;)


  15. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Hydrogen on Demand

    I remember seeing quite a bit of promotion about Hydrogen-on Demand at one time in the recent past:

    "In contrast, reacting chemical hydrides with water is a great way to generate hydrogen. Millennium Cell has developed and publicly demonstrated systems (known as Hydrogen on Demand® or HOD™ systems) utilizing sodium borohydride (NaBH4) as a hydrogen storage medium at power levels ranging from as low as 2 W up to 65 kW."

    It looked real interesting, but I don't see the same emphasis on this technology that there once was??
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