Solidworks2000 design methods

Hi there,

I dont think SW is the best way to do hull design Maxsurf is a lot better and easyer.
But I am little bit used to work with SW it's kind a different to work with.

Don't look at the little me's I used them to get some ergonomic thinking

Greetz,

Daniel Peeters

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1573&stc=1

 

Hey,

I'm beginning to think hull design can't be done at all using Solidworks 2004.
Well, I have no choice, but to make it work. I will look into Maxsurf, when I have a chance, but for now I'm almost ready to sell my soul for some great tricks on the best approach.
Since, our boats are aluminum so we use frames in the hull for strength. How would you construct the frame using Solidworks if the hull had to be in sw as well?

Westley,

 

Westley

Solidworks is a great program, but it is not ideal for the work you are doing. It is not a hull design program and you would be better off using one of the dedicated hull design programs for that function.

Solidworks is very good for modelling objects with significant volume and it is excellent for designing solid or moulded parts.

For structure built out of thin plate parts you are better off using a system that is tailored for that purpose (i.e. not a solid modeller). We do a preliminary structural design system (named Workshop) for plate vessels and we link this to ShipConstructor for detailed design. ShipConstructor works within Autocad and is specifically set up for doing steel and aluminum vessels.

 

You can probably build a hull using SW. I believe SW claims that the One World Team in the last America's Cup used their software. The attached is a loft in SW.

However, as far as I can tell it is best to use something like Andrew's MaxSurf to do the lofting and hydrostatics. Then you can import it into SW to do structural details.

SW does have some limitations as far as working with non-planar surfaces. In hulls/decks/foils there are a lot of non-planar surfaces and interfaces between non-planar surfaces.

 

I primarily work with aluminum and I do all my hull fairing with lines, frames, bulkheads, stringers, etc. essentially all major panels in the boat. I think it is easier to do as much as possible in one program for example to make sure that all parts fit to one another. TouchCAD also does all major weight and center of gravity calculations and compile it in a worksheet (all parts have their individual weight or weight per area unit property). The built in unfolding feature allows me to unfold just about any shape and automatically send it to the Unfold view where I can compile a complete panel layout and optimize the use of material without loosing the dynamic link to the 3D model or any of its rather extensive parametric unfolding features (automatic X-Y coordinate measurements, panel and point numbering, alingment marks, overlaps etc.). TouchCAD does all this in a single unit and with no limitation to the number of panles that can be used. I essentially only use my CAD program (VectorWorks) to finalize the production drawings and a rendering program (Artlantis) for photo realistic renderings beyond the built in OpenGL rendering /fly-over/ walkthrough / animation / dynamic cut-throughs. www.touchcad.com

Claes Lundstrom

 

Oneworld used Maxsurf for their hull design, as did Alinghi, Team NZ and most of the other teams. Maxsurf has been used by the challenger and defender of the past 3 America's Cups.

All of the teams use other CAD systems in addition to Maxsurf for detailed appendage design, Finite Element Analysis and general design, and Solidworks is one of the most widely used, however Maxsurf remains the dominant system for actual development of AC hull shapes.

 

That would be a better expalnation. I was at a SW user's meeting a while ago and the rep was making a big deal about the OW use. I specifically asked if they used it for the hull design and he said yes. Probably a bit of ignorance on the rep's part, but he sure wasn't going to say no if he wasn't sure. I doubted that it was so, since something like MaxSurf would be a better tool for that application.

 

Mr. Mason,

You pretty much told me what I was expecting. The only problem I have with your insightful advice, is the cost of ShipConstructor. Someday I hope to get some experience using that program, after reading information on it, some time ago, it was my first choice. Unfortunately, Solidworks is all I have.

 

SW as design tool

We are at present building a radius chine design by Dudley Dix. All the frames and a large number of other components were NC cut. The cutting files were made with SW. With a few tricks the you can chop the frames into "live" components (If modifications are made on the model, all components are updated automatically). For nesting I used AutoCAD (www.alumaryachts.com).
I must say I am very happy with SW. Without any training and no experience with any other drawing program I managed to model the entire boat, thus allowing for (manual) calculation of stability, weight etc.
By NC-cutting the frames (incl. lofting floor!) you ensure that all dimensions are correct and save a really large amount of labour costs.

Re. plate development: The decks of our Dix 43 are not fully developed (rolled in one direction only) and can therefore be NC cut very easily.

The developed plating however was hand cut (templates). Creating the cutting files for such plating is very difficult. When welding Al the plating shrinks considerably. Thus pre-cut plates these will probably not fit as well as well as you may think.

A semi- or custom built aluminium yacht is a piece of art. Building her will always require a large amount of craftsmanship and patients. There is no way around it.

 

Sw

This company uses SW. But it is a bit tricky and they are rather alone

You could buy Rhino and make the surfaces in Rhino and then import the surfaces to SW.

http://www.kock-marin.se/index.html

Hans

 

Thanks Alumar,

I appreciate your encouragement, it's nice knowing your enjoy using sw, and I'm amazed that you could model an entire boat without any training or experience. Did you come across a good sw manual, tell me, I want to buy one. Someday, if I every get were I can operate SW efficiently, I'll send you some email of my work, so you can tell me what you think.

Westley
seaarkwestley@yahoo.com

 

Hey Hans,

When I last imported a 3D Autocad drawing into Solidworks, my zero thickness Hull surfaces, all become 2D flat surfaces and the frames remained 3d objects. Will the same happen if I import a Rhino 3D hull surfaces into SolidWorks? I thought any hull plating in Solidworks has to have thickness otherwise, its a surface that can't be used to calculate weight.

Westley
seaarkwestley@yahoo.com

 

Iges

You have to convert the dwg file into a Iges file.

Hans

 

Thanks for the iges reminder, I just skipped a step.

On a brighter note things are looking up now. I just spoke with someone at "C. Raymond Hunt Associates, they do most of our hull design work. Well, they use Prosurf and Rhino and are willing to send us information in those formats. They have been sending it to us in Autocad, but now since I've asked otherwise, I can start taking their Rhino drawings and using them in Solidworks. This will save me so much time! I'm so happy!

Seek and ye shall find.

Westley

 

Hi Wes

I have been using SW for about a year and a half, and I think you should stick with it. The training we got was pretty good, but even so it took me a while to get my head round things. Have you got good technical support? I certainly got my money's worth from our guys, and on a few occasions they have gone away and worked out how to do something, to show me. So after a year and a half I can now create some pretty interesting shapes and have just designed an intricate deck layout matched to a hull, with curves in all sorts of directions.

SW isn't as good at producing crazy organic shapes like a human face, in which case you'd want to use something like Rhino. But it can model just about anything you can machine etc. For example I have seen a whole engine modelled in SW.

The best part though is the ability (IF the model is built correctly) to create parametric features, such as hull frames that will update if you alter the original hull shape.

You can model hulls in Solidworks, I've done it a couple of times, but it's much better to originate them in something like Maxsurf which is easier and gives you the all important hydrostatic data to feedback into your design as it evolves. In fact you can do this in SW as well, but it involves splitting the hull into two parts at the waterline, and then measuring the volumes etc of the underwater section - which is cumbersome and time consuming.

I know of someone who might be able to help as he seems to be able to do some pretty awesome structural stuff in SW now... Check out:

www.djaweb.co.uk

I hope this is of help, and good luck - stick with it.

Andy