Small Tri's under 20', any mention of foils is banned..

Wayne - don't answer - you just prolong the agony for the rest of us.

Send him a PM if you want to debate BS.

PLEASE

 

Anthony,

I didn't see the comment on the Cross 18, can you tell me which post you are referring to?

I looked for 30 years for a performance comparison on the Cross 18 and have never found one.
There are some recent reports on Duckworks
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/11/reports/april/index.htm scroll down to see a short report. There are others, but I always have trouble finding them. I suppose a more modern design would out run it, but I have never found out precisely why.

I talked to the guy in the article when he wanted to sell the boat, but he decided to keep it. He never had anything to say about comparison sailing, just that he really liked the boat.
In many features it like the newer W17 but with more freeboard. I have a few pictures if you would like me to PM them to you. The websight offering plans has recently been taken off line.

 

Cross 18 and others

I saw a comment on the thread, I think by Richard Woods (forgive me if not so) that seemed to indicate it was not the best. Post 99.

I did think the table in the article gave some nice comparisons and I looked into it carefully when crafting my own ideas and plans.

I must confess the Cross 18 is aesthetically very pleasing. Thank you for the offer to PM me the details - very kind. I don't know how PMing works - but I am sure I can figure it out. I will not be building one, but great to have on record. It is my kind of boat - balance of nice layout for sailing, swift, and good looking.

I made friends with a Frenchman who built a small trimaran I saw on the web who has been incredibly helpful and supportive but I have lost contact over the last two years due to moving house. One of a kind in foam. Will see if I can still find the youtube video of his boat. Might be of interest.

 

Nice website on small trimarans

http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/

I spend hours on this. Lots of interesting designs and developments - of interest to this thread for those who don't know about it.

Frank Smoot's trimarans are on there, and some you tube videos of them -though he has his own website. Very rough and ready - but quick and interesting. He builds alot of them round a chair which I find very amusing, but if you enjoy sailing in that position I am sure it is very comfortable.

 

Reply to Doug

Hi Doug

I don't really want to hi-jack this thread with my own build - but for interest it is based on a hull of the Windrush by Selway Fisher. Paul modified the design for me for this purpose and pictures of the boat are on his website (google Anthony Walker and Windrush and Selway-Fisher). Boat has progressed since then, but getting materials in South Africa can be a bit tricky in my neck of the woods. Have just discovered some wonderful epoxy as a source for fairing that is designed for boats and made in SA so I can hoist it down from the roof and move forward a bit. Using a Micro Cat as outriggers. Cat made locally in the 80's but out of production - pretty outriggers and the volume and length I am looking for. Most importantly its cross beams will slot nicely into the main hull with modifications.

The boat is not designed for speed. Easy of transportation, and assembly on the beach. Will have a cat ketch rig, back sail boomless. Masts will be free standing and connected to the cross frame that connects the hulls. Young kids so needs to be safe and stable. Self draining. No cuddy - I must confess to not understanding small boats with cuddies - but perhaps this is because we have very mild weather here and I don't plan to sail in winter. Beautiful beaches here - but submerged rocks are exceptionally sharp - so no appendages. Flip up leeboards. Hope to have seats ala Discovery or Cross 18 or W17 style. Sure, I plan it to be a lot quicker than a mono, and light, but I am not looking for a rocket.

 

Thanks for the info, Anthony-best of luck!

 

=====================
After Waynes personally directed insults to Gary and myself and his comments about "doers vs talkers" I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask him if he has ever designed, built and sailed his own trimaran. It's beginning to look like I already have an answer.

 

=============
Anthony, just out of curiosity why did you decide to go with leeboards?
PS- I found pictures of your main hull-absolutely beautiful!
click on picture for best view--

 

Doug you are sort of right, I have only ever built small racing cats, yes I do have a Tri design on the go and yes as soon as I have that completed, a 20ft Tri will be underway.

And that is why I'm here on this forum, to listen and learn, to understand the nuances of small Tri's rather than cats, to understand the varying build techniques, to explore others ideas.

What I don't do whilst here on the forum, is totally deluge every thread with a constant barrage of information totally reliant on mediocre scaled models, that have little or no relevance to every thread the poster seems to spend an enormous amount of time in.

Now can we get back to discussing under 20 ft Tri's. In particular can we discuss the foibles of making them too wide. I can understand why Iren's made the SeaRail with such small amas and then could immediately see in the videos when the sailors seemed to be not out on the the rails, why they had to make larger floats. So from an ergonomic view, large floats are needed to give people the confidence to move out onto the tramps. But could smaller floats simply further from the centre line, give the same result with a lighter all up weight. But would this then lead to the need for larger more rudders to compensate the sea way difficulties of a wide boat.

 

Sea Pearl 21

It creeps in a foot over the thread posting - so apologies for this. But the Sea Pearl 21 is an interesting trimaran in the smaller trimaran catagory if one is looking for trimarans for stability. It does in my mind have a bit of a 'trainer wheels add on' look. But it adds to the diversity of trimarans out there in the smaller size.

 

Trimaran floats....

Wayne - I have been squirreling away articles on flotation of outriggers, and I have one with a nice development of them since the 70's in terms of length and shape. I will dig it out for you but may need a week or so. I am not sure how they transponse to smaller boats.

 

Wayne,

I just had a PM conversation with Doug about my distaste for the Pissing contest you and he have been having.

The "mediocre model" comment likely destroyed any minimal positive effect that conversation could have had.

I hope you will think about just how positive the rest of your post would have been if you could have just answered him, then gotten on with the discussion of 20' Tris without the slam.

Personally I just want to hear the discussion on the boats and not have to pick out the rest.

 

Totally agree that this forum should be about boat design, but of late in my view, that design process has been somewhat subdued and inhibited by the dominance of one poster, now that's not good for design.

I want this thread in particular to be a good free running thread, Doug can you please restrict your comments in this thread to just once per day, that way, other posters won't feel as though any direction they go, will immediately be responded to by yourself. Please let others have an input.

 

Yes, Doug loves foils, and I love what foils have done for this sport in the last 10 years. Doug was experimenting with model foiling boats decades before the Moth started to fly, and that is pretty cool.

I would love to see a foiling 20' trimaran that is capable of stable flight and can be sailed be mere mortals vs. Olympic level athletes, but that type of boat isn't the only type of boat worth talking and dreaming about, is it.

People post here because they/we love to discuss boat design. Sure, disagreements arise, but for the most part the forum works rather well in terms of allowing everyone to discuss what interests them.

I learn a lot from Richard Woods, Rob Denney, Russel Brown, Gary, Corley, and the whole lot of people who take the time to share their experience and love of sailing, designing and building multihulls.

Again, as a mere mortal it's a real treat to talk to people with the kind of talent and experience shared so freely here. It really is a unique and special thing we have here.

Opinions are like multihulls, it takes all kinds and they are valuable in their own way.

How about someone actually post some designs of trimarans they have been working on?

 

Wayne and Doug,

Both of you have said you want the same thing.
Then both of you point at the other.

If you both won't quit, then one of you and we'll have more of a "good free running thread".

The thing is no one can stop you from saying what you want. It's up to you.
FYI, I have been accused of poisoning a thread with my views and I also have had to voluntarily change my attitude.

It can be done.

I'll try to get back to boats, myself.