Small trimarans under 20'

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Doug Lord, Jun 24, 2012.

  1. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 13,773
    Likes: 114, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Speed with Comfort

    It sure seems like it's time for an under 20' tri that can beat beach cats and do so with the crew(single or doublehanded) very comfortable-no running across an 8' tramp, don't ya think? I mean ,it's the 21st century......
     
  2. CutOnce

    CutOnce Previous Member

    Absolutely it is time. On that we can agree. I'd love one.

    Wing sail, all-carbon clear coated foam cored resin-infused autoclaved construction, a frosting of oddly-shaped foils and an electronic quad core Android Spithill module handling string pulling and aerodynamic decision making. Jetson-style instant folding for trailering, retractable foils for beach launch, two pound one ounce carbon Barcalounger custom fit to the owner and square-topped, carbon/Kevlar laminate blade jib. On board combo GPS/GoPro/Narcissism logger posting via LTE/4G actual performance real-time to Twitter, Facebook and Youtube. AC6.2. Outspending to outperform. Did I miss anything?

    On the other hand, really careful choices made could probably achieve 80% or more of the performance the above described tri with 5-10% of the budget, provided someone is willing to spend six months to a year working in their spare time, and be able to move across the boat. Think more Gary Baigent and less Larry Ellison.

    --
    CutOnce
     
  3. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 13,773
    Likes: 114, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ==================
    I'd prefer Gary Baigent financed by Larry Ellison with a little MPX in the mix....
     
  4. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
    Posts: 1,470
    Likes: 33, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 349
    Location: Beaconsfield Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    Can I have the apple version? Since money isn't an issue.
    I prefer original, and I don't want to have to reboot after every jibe.
    Might need to load Google charts though ! :D
     
  5. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 3,485
    Likes: 77, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 826
    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    Off the beach trimarans dont have to be ridiculously expensive to be competitive with beach cats. The Ultralight 20 is under 15k US weighs in at 220 lbs (100kgs) in standard form and 175 lbs (80kgs) in R form. A pretty cool option for the performance beach trimaran market.

    http://www.warrenlightcraft.com/specsul20ds.html
     
  6. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 13,773
    Likes: 114, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    =============
    Do you think it would beat a race ready F18 around a course?
     
  7. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 3,485
    Likes: 77, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 826
    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    Not sure but probably yes in "R" form with the larger rig and the tri being singlehanded. The base platform weight on the UL20 is lower than an F18 which is what 180kg's minimum platform weight plus two crew? Conditions would play a role too but I think I've sailed more light air races over the year than heavy and there the UL20 should on average be faster. Not sure about seastate either if more of a short chop kicks up the cat may do better but then if the UL20 flys its main hull above the chop might not be an issue, hard to say.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2013
  8. P Flados
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 600
    Likes: 32, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 390
    Location: N Carolina

    P Flados Senior Member

    FYI,

    Just looked over the video of the 2013 Everglades Challenge pre-race lineup.

    Lots of monos and 3 hull boats, just a few cats.

    Three cats in the top 10. Jollyroger was the only three hull boat in the top 10, and it raced as Class 3 'Sailing Kayaks and Canoes'


    danceswithsandybottom and SOS Class 4, Double Male
    Coresound 20 2 Days, 0 Hours, 2 Min

    sambasailor and sailsalot Class 4, Double Male
    Coresound 17 2 Days, 7 Hours, 34 Min

    iszatarock Class 5, Single Male
    Mystere 4.3 catamaran 2 Days, 10 Hours, 13 Min

    CrazyLugan and Heathen Hobie C, Double Male
    Hobie 16 2 Days, 11 Hours, 22 Min

    jollyroger Class 3,
    Self built decked wooden expedition canoe. 19' x 38" and 235 lbs. Displacement 800 lbs. folding aka's watertribe ama's. carbon mast and sail. mirage drive.
    2 Days, 16 Hours, 7 Min

    Jarhead Class 4, Single Male
    SeaPearl 21 2 Days, 23 Hours, 45 Min

    justanothersailor Hobie C, Single Male
    (Hobie 18 Magnum) 3 Days, 1 Hours, 26 Min

    excitableboy and runswithbeer Class 4, Double Male
    Sea Pearl 3 Days, 15 Hours, 1 Min

    ironbob and TheJuice Class 2, Double Male
    3 Days, 16 Hours, 36 Min

    KayakVagabond Class 2, Single Male
    3 Days, 19 Hours, 10 Min

    Class 1 - Expedition Kayaks and Canoes
    Class 2 - Racing Kayaks, Canoes, Rowing Shells
    Class 3 - Sailing Kayaks and Canoes
    Class 4 - Small Sailboats - monohulls
    Class 5 - Small Sailboats - cats, tris
     
  9. Richard Woods
    Joined: Jun 2006
    Posts: 2,019
    Likes: 112, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1244
    Location: UK, USA and Canada

    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    I agree with Corley. The standard boat rig is quite small, and the freeboard looks very low, so in a chop there will be a lot of drag from beams, tramp etc. But of course low freeboard is light. And I assume the sails on the racing rig will look better than the ones in the video

    Let's hope someone soon races one against a F18 to find out for sure which is the faster

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
  10. CutOnce

    CutOnce Previous Member

    Glad you didn't choose Windows. They blue screened the USS Yorktown.. I'm a Unix guy, but use Macs for desktop clients. Both Macs and Android are Unix under the hood.

    I've looked hard at tha Warren UL20 -it appears to be a little too beach cat in it's accommodations. But it is really close.

    --
    CutOnce

    (sent from my iPad)
     
  11. Ilan Voyager
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 1,085
    Likes: 62, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 758
    Location: Cancun Mexico

    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    Looks rather nice, but the beams are truly too low and will drag horribly in any wind above 8-10 knots. At the announced weights, I have some doubts about general strength, a 220-240 pounds for the racer version in carbon, and 280-300 pounds for the normal version would not bother me, as a fragile and unreliable boat is truly annoying...A bit more material would not detract the perfs. The designer has minimized surfaces (with the option of low freeboard and thus volumes that have their consequences, ie lack of power). The boat looks very specialized for light winds. The hardware seems also very small, sheeting the main sail with 15 knots of wind will need very strong arms. The mainsail in the video of You Tube is not astounding.
    As it is, I do not see myself making a regatta in a 20 knots wind and a good shop as we were used in French Brittany.

    But it's easier to criticize than to make, so I like the effort. I hope they have good success and I wish to be totally mistaken in my opinion about this boat
    .
     
  12. Ilan Voyager
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 1,085
    Likes: 62, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 758
    Location: Cancun Mexico

    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    I'm definitely Unix and thus Linux. I saw too many problems and issues with Windows, with the subsequent loss of time. The French navy and all the French administrations uses Unix and derivatives since ages for reliability.

    I imagine a blue screen during an exchange of missiles...or an engine shutdown while 2 torpedoes are running to your ***. The total nightmare.
     
  13. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 3,485
    Likes: 77, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 826
    Location: Melbourne, Australia

    Corley epoxy coated

    I'd like to see an "r" version sailing before I drew too many conclusions the basic boat is intended to be an entry level craft and that means some corners have to be cut in terms of gear and sails. I'd like to see a bit more freeboard too but as Ted Warren notes in the thread over here you pay a high price in windage for it http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/ted-warren-new-ultralight-20-trimaran-44502.html . A lot would depend on your venue for sailing if you have steady winds a heavier craft might be fine but if you are cursed with light and fluky winds 75% of the time (like us in Westernport Bay) a boat that does well in the light would be a great option.
     
  14. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 13,773
    Likes: 114, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ==============
    The boat can also be ordered with ama foils which would help when flying the main hull-which it is designed to do ,as I understand it.
     

  15. Ilan Voyager
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 1,085
    Likes: 62, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 758
    Location: Cancun Mexico

    Ilan Voyager Senior Member

    Visibly the tri was designed for the light weather prevalent in the States, and that's normal as the USA is the first and main market. The windage argument leaves me a bit skeptic...at those speeds of wind and boat the incidence is minimal, but the cost of building is by square foot...If it was truly intended to fly the main hull all time, it would have rudders and boards on the amas and the privce would be higher. At 15000 USD the basic version is a deal! and most of the sailors won't seek to fly on one hull.

    This tri will be probably useless in zones with mean winds rather strong as the Channel and North Sea in West Europe with the according sea state. It's common to race with more than 20-25 knots, and nobody thinks of canceling the regatta. At 20 knots of wind and good waves, sailing this tri must a nice exercise of survival, with its low arms hitting the water. It's not a defect of design as this tri is targeted for low cost and light weather on flat waters. But I see it very well on Lake Geneva with a big spinnaker...

    Without talking of reliability, if the announced weights are true the scantlings must be truly very, very-very just in strong winds and seas. The light Class A are not known for their reliability in strong winds nor its resistance to denting the hulls...

    Should be very interesting to see it with small foils.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.