Slocum`s Spray

[goodwilltoall]

Bataan, most liveaboards should have the ability to haulout that way.

 

[BATAAN]

Goodwilly-
Here's two guys building a boat in the woods. One side has been planked and now they've laid her over the other way to plank the port side. This is as simple as it gets. When the snow comes they haul it to the water's edge by skidding it. Sometimes these days we make things so complex.
I know I try to keep things simple but I never got this far with it.

 

[BATAAN]

Another BERTIE photo at WB festival Port Townsend 2009. Items different from most current cruising practice are notably NO turnbuckles, especially above the bowsprit. This allows the remote downhaul to compress the luff down onto the sprit when dowsing, removing as much windage as possible. With the usual turnbuckled stay the sail won't go past the top of the device, holding it up in the air to be sloppy windage. There's no platform or s/s pulpit on the 16' (outboard) sprit, just a long wire lifeline to clip to when you go out to tend to business, with feet on the footropes and waist against the solid wood. You can see these in the pic.
Outer (jib) stay goes under a roller on the cranse iron and back to the gammoning where it has a lashing. Stays'l stay (forestay) goes through the bowsprit via a riveted and glued in half sheave made of ironbark to take the load. You can see its lashing under the bow between the stay and chain bobstay. All gaskets are Gloucester style and stopper knotted in the teak furling rails on top. In the photo the lower main luff parrel is too slack and makes that big wrinkle in the lowest panel of the mainsail. A little more tension on that and the main would set better!
Blame the captain!

 

[sharpii2]

My guess is that its the hull shape (very fat hull, long flat section keel) that makes it less than an optimum sailboat - rather than just sail cut.

I agree.

My point was to suggest how to make the best of a bad situation. How to get the most performance improvement for the least amount of money.

I suppose a longer bowsprit could be added, lengthening the fore triangle, then an unstayed mizzen could be added to balance it. Everything but the mizzen could be well stayed and quite secure. Maybe the area could be increased by a third.

I think the big draggy propeller is a major culprit. Making it a feathering one or being willing to motorsail could solve much of that problem. My vote would be to get rid of it completely by just taking it off the shaft, then seeing how well the boat sails without it. If it improved significantly, I would consider springing for a feathering propeller.

I'm just thinking about what I'd do if I inherited one and wanted to make it into as good of a sailboat as possible under the circumstances, without having to completely rebuild it.

I remember reading a few years back the BR, himself bought a 27 ft version of his 'spray' design and moved aboard.

I wonder if He ever sailed it.

I also wonder how Capton Slocum got such good performance out of his. He certainly had less than 1800 sf of sail. My guess, from looking at drawings was that he ended up with 1200 sf or less.

That's the main reason I think the prop is the problem. I think it can do significantly more damage to performance than the higher freeboard. The BR spray probably has a far lower center of gravity than the original and, due to its higher deck, probably has a better range of stability.

 

[larry larisky]

Goodwilly-
Here's two guys building a boat in the woods. One side has been planked and now they've laid her over the other way to plank the port side. This is as simple as it gets. When the snow comes they haul it to the water's edge by skidding it. Sometimes these days we make things so complex.
I know I try to keep things simple but I never got this far with it.

i like what you said

 

[Kale]

Working Boat Interiors

If anyone owning a coaster-style (Spray style) vessel, preferably with a trunk cabin, would be willing to post any photos they might have of the vessels interiors it would be much appreciated. I'm a long time sailor who developed his love of classic working boats while serving on small commercial fishing boats in Alaska.

I'd be especially interested in photos of Bataan's boat (Bertie) and/or Culler's Spray (does anyone know if she is still floating? Or where she might be?)

Thanks in advance.

 

[BATAAN]

If anyone owning a coaster-style (Spray style) vessel, preferably with a trunk cabin, would be willing to post any photos they might have of the vessels interiors it would be much appreciated. I'm a long time sailor who developed his love of classic working boats while serving on small commercial fishing boats in Alaska.

I'd be especially interested in photos of Bataan's boat (Bertie) and/or Culler's Spray (does anyone know if she is still floating? Or where she might be?)

Thanks in advance.

Kale
Here are some old photos of the interior when we were living aboard. There are 7' long bunks behind those sliding varnished pine panels that form the backrests to the settees.
BERTIE is on the hard and a real mess inside as I'm in the middle of doing a lot of painting, but I'll straighten her out and get some better pics. I think Culler's boat has some interior photos in his hard-to-find small volume published in the 70s about his SPRAY, but those pics didn't make it into "Skiffs and Schooners" or "Pete Culler on Wooden Boats", two more recent books of his. His boat was last seen on San Francisco bay where I did some repairs to her stern 30 years ago, but I have lost track of who owns her now or where she's gotten off to.

 

[BATAAN]

More SPRAY stuff. The only photo I could find of Culler's 1929 boat. That's me adzing out a new sternpost about 1974 or 75.. This style of shipbuilding is as quick and dirty as it can get, no time to take the piece into the shop, set it up on the bench at the right angle etc. No, just dog it down to whatever's handiest and start chopping because the budget is very small. Does the job.
The two boats are BERTIE and HERMANAS Y HERMANOS in California about 1985 or so. HYH is PO Cedar on frames of the same material formed of overlapping futtocks epoxy glued and fastened to make sawn frames which were then fitted to the planking, or 'joggled'. HYH's stem is straighter at the top giving a slightly longer deck (he could only find a 12" piece for the stem whereas BERTIE's was sawn from a 6x18 to give the proper profile).
At the end is BERTIE's original Colvin and Hasler influenced Chinese main and Skipjack jumbo jib setup with lazyjacks.
She now has staysail and jib and a new mainsail which is about 10 percent bigger. It took 20 years to wear out the old main so I had plenty of time to think about the new, which has many not-so-obvious and subtle improvements from research into Chinese methods.
Part of BERTIE's reason to be is as a research vessel, learning the practical handling of a small cargo vessel under sail in all conditions, as to what would be the most advantageous combination (cost/manning/capacity/lifespan) for a 'nineteenth century small windship of the future' kind of thing.
The most recent photo is on this site elsewhere several times but I include it again to show the improvements. One of the handiest is the 'half-reef-batten' just above the boom. This batten doesn't even have a sheet to it. With the lifts slack the entire sail is set, to put the first reef in you pull on the lifts, often only the after ones and leaving the single forward lift as is. This gets the sail out of your eyes, reduces area and most importantly, pre-tensions the lifts so when you add weight in further reefing by slacking the halyard they don't stretch and require further adjustment. As the years go by and BERTIE's rig is refined, the things that work well are usually the original Chinese approach, discovered by many hours of work with a magnifying glass on old photos. What is this rope and what does it do? Why is this peculiar lead used? (often turns out to reduce chafe)
Keep fiddling long enough and it all sorts itself out. One of these days I'll do some western things like a make a medium size asymmetrical spinny and a bigger jib or two, but those take a lot of money and she does quite well in light air as-is due to the main. She'll also work into an anchorage with it alone like a cat boat, making single-handing a little easier.
SPRAYs and their derivatives have their pluses and minuses, but for me, it's been the right boat for a very long time.

 

[Kale]

Kale
Here are some old photos of the interior when we were living aboard. There are 7' long bunks behind those sliding varnished pine panels that form the backrests to the settees.
BERTIE is on the hard and a real mess inside as I'm in the middle of doing a lot of painting, but I'll straighten her out and get some better pics. I think Culler's boat has some interior photos in his hard-to-find small volume published in the 70s about his SPRAY, but those pics didn't make it into "Skiffs and Schooners" or "Pete Culler on Wooden Boats", two more recent books of his. His boat was last seen on San Francisco bay where I did some repairs to her stern 30 years ago, but I have lost track of who owns her now or where she's gotten off to.

Much appreciate your reply and the attached photos. While I rarely have trouble finding pictures of yachts built along the lines of the old working boats very few of these include interiors. Part of the attraction of the Spray design, at least in my case, is that models ability to carry weight and to provide a comfortable home for its owners. Like you, I grab ideas from many sources and incorporate the bits and pieces into what will eventually (I hope) become my own boat.

Was wondering...you are the only person I know of who actually worked on Culler's boat. Where her planking was concerned, and the way in which it was salted during her construction, how well did it stand up to her years? With your experience would you consider salting during initial construction? The process seems a sound one, but I have little experience in this area and would appreciate some input.

Kale

 

[BATAAN]

If I remember right it was 1 1/2" yellow pine on 6" sawn oak frames on about 16" centers, all spiked. Planking was generally good, but had been repaired over the years. We replaced a couple on the stbd side, the lower transom and the sternpost. I remember seeing a salt stop while doing the plank repairs.
I think salting is done when the available frame stock is green oak, as was quite common in rushed commercial construction. I did not do it on my boat as BERTIE is mostly Port Orford cedar and was well seasoned. A yacht gets different treatment than a workboat, more care and less neglect we would hope. Salt is very hard on the iron fastenings and in a damp environment is mostly dissolved in a year or so anyway, then the salt is gone but the 'salt stops' are still between the frames forever, stopping proper ventilation. If building a sawn frame workboat type, try to find well seasoned material, fit it well and install BIG ventilators. BERTIE has two 6" screw top vents in the stern that are also mooring bitts, a 5" cowl and a solar vent in the bow and 3 solar vents in the cabin tops. We have very little mildew or condensation.
Culler's boat had one long trunk cabin, no hold, and a big focsle with engine and more. Finish below was white paint and some varnish. Good for chartering. BERTIE's setup is a stern cabin with two berths, a low bridge deck, a hold/cabin with two berths and much stowage, and a focsle with a double and a single bunk.

 

[BATAAN]

Here are some more photos. The first two are the disappearing chart table. I hate 'chart desks' as they are usually covered in seaboots and puke buckets so have for many years installed these in fish boats. It takes a full size chart and is instantly available, close to your eyes in good light. The next one is the head of the table and the galley. The SABB 30hp diesel lives under the table and its dry exhaust shows on the left.

 

[BATAAN]

Here's a couple of interesting SPRAY things. An article by JS's son Victor on a SPRAY replica and Weston Farmer's table of offsets.

 

[Kale]

Spray Interiors, Etc.

Bataan,

Much appreciate your reply. There are not a whole lot of folks out there with an understanding of working boats, especially the construction angle, and I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge.

Another question if you please: Culler mentioned that his boat was frammed heavier than was normal for a craft the size of the Spray because the vessel was of a "naturally weak shape." To what was he referring?

I noticed that Bertie used frames of equal size for her entire length. I've also seen coaster style craft with alternating frames (one full size, one smaller). Any advantage to this?

Were you ever tempted to use a Slocum style wheel and tiller system on Bertie? The simplicity of what you did with the rudder is attractive in terms of maintenance and ease of access (or emergency repairs), but I'm kind of wheel prone.

 

[BATAAN]

Culler's boat and BERTIE are regular coaster construction, same as small cargo workboats, schooners and tugs worldwide. "Double sawn frames" it's called, meaning each frame is made up of 2 layers of futtocks and all are the same siding, or thickness. The molding, or width, changes being wider at the keel where the stresses are larger. This construction gives massive strength and also long life, as half the frames can be rotten and the boat still works. It's also a very fast way to frame a vessel once you understand it. There are no ribbands or molds required as in bent frames.
Alternating sawn and bent frames is a light but strong yacht style, while alternating single and double would be for a F/V or pilot boat maybe. SPRAY is wide and shallow, which makes it less resistant to hogging, or sagging in a longitudinal direction, a naturally weak shape like a shoebox. A deep, narrow boat makes a stronger 'beam' than the wide shallow one. Pete's boat had no 'bridge deck', but a long cabin trunk, cutting out the deck (top of the beam) where it needs it most, so they upped the frame size a bit. BERTIE has two deck beams amidships, tying the sides together but making an inconvenient duck-through to go from one cabin to the next. You can see them in the pic of the deck frame going in. Whoops, can't get that one to rotate upright.
Here are a few more pics. The full-size disappearing chart table and the galley table that hides the engine. A chart desk takes up a huge amount of room for very little utility so I've installed quite a few of this style chart table in F/Vs and yachts.
The other day I found the letters he sent and when I asked for a construction plan he said just look at his boat and others of the type. All was fairly straight forward but his stern framing was very simple and solved some problems I thought I'd have. Remember all these things were worked out long ago and events move smoothly when the road has been graded by others.

 

[BATAAN]

About the wheel... A tiller is a piece of wood and takes an hour to make. It is very difficult to see what could go wrong with it if it's strong enough not to break.
For a wheel you have to make it, two days work, or buy a good one for $500, plus a wheel box, plus either a drum-and-tiller setup, more work, or an Edson screw gear, much money, takes space, doesn't steer the boat any better at all. Plus, there are many more parts to go wrong at an inconvenient time. Culler's boat had a screw gear and the wooden rudder head was badly split from its power.
SPRAY type is very easy steering and BERTIE's tiller end is just at hip height so we often steer just by leaning on it. Only have to steer usually under power. Most of time can get her to steer herself under sail.
BERTIE is cheap, practical workboat one end to the other. A wheel would be icing on the cake and it's already plenty sweet.