Skin on frame kayak plans

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by chuckyNZ, Sep 10, 2013.

  1. chuckyNZ
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    chuckyNZ Junior Member

    So I have been searching for some free sof kayak plans but cant seam to come up with much luck. I know there are a few plans that are written in number refrences but I am a first time builder so I was hoping for something more visual as I want to do a good attempt on it.

    Anyone know of a place I could get some free templates or visual diagrams?
     
  2. chuckyNZ
    Joined: Sep 2013
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    chuckyNZ Junior Member

    Skin on frame kayak plan

    So I have been searching for some free sof kayak plans but cant seam to come up with much luck. I know there are a few plans that are written in number refrences but I am a first time builder so I was hoping for something more visual as I want to do a good attempt on it.

    Anyone know of a place I could get some free templates or visual diagrams?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2013
  3. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

  4. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Yostwerks does a good job of showing you the visual, but providing the numbers. It is really easy to make your own patterns from the numbers.

    If you don't get it, ask a question here.
    There are lots of guys at the Guillemot website who have published build photos to help you understand the process. http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-bin/Building/index.cgi/page/1/md/index/#m_215803

    Another option is to buy the Nick Schade book(s) on building strip planked boats, he has directions on making the patterns.

    Or go to Gentrycustomboats.com and buy his plans. they come printed full size I believe.
    Another alternative is kudzucraft.com who also sells and provides printed patterns. He also sells a book -I haven't seen it personally.
    I know you said free, but neither charges a lot, and you are asking for them to do all the work for the patterns. This is also their living.
    Probably more I haven't seen.
     
  5. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Those 'number references' are not that hard.

    Even if you get some pictures of frames, the measurements will be in numbers. Graph paper and a bit of trial and error will be a big help.
    Remember, for every 'bend' in a frame need to know to draw the 'bend' is
    1) How far to the right or left the boats centreline it is
    2) High above a 'baseline' (or keel ) the point is.

    Some times the baseline is the lowest point of the hull, sometimes it is an imaginary line a bit lower down.

    Example

    Frame ???

    From centreline From baseline
    Sheer 127 mm 120 mm
    Chine 118 mm 110 mm
    Keel 0 mm 15 mm

    On you graph, draw a point 127 mm to the right or left of where you decide the centreline should be, and 120 mm from the bottom of the page.

    I have also attached a traditional lofting example in inches, for your reference


    Check out http://forum.woodenboat.com/archive/index.php/t-12839.html
    and
    http://www.dixdesign.com/lofting1.htm
    for some info, and do some searching on these forums for insights, and have a good think about it.

    Also, don't be scared to scale the frames to a small size, draw them on cardboard, and set up the frames in a plank. You will be surprised how easily it all comes together.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Ganbai
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    Ganbai New Member

  7. Wavewacker
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    Wavewacker Senior Member

    All kinds of SOF kayaks, a few small canoes, anyone know of a larger canoe 20-24 feet as a freighter canoe? I've seen the war canoes being much larger, historic boats, along with finished boats but no plans for them.
     
  8. chuckyNZ
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    chuckyNZ Junior Member

    Also what are the pro's and con's of bigger gunwhales/chines/hull? I am struggling finding the right size wood and with limited tools I cant seem to get it. I can get close. I can get 3/4 sizing but not 5/8's... Would it make much difference?
    Also I have rang around everyone locally to see if they can plane the thickness but no luck unless I want to spend big $$$ which isn't the way for me.
     
  9. chuckyNZ
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    chuckyNZ Junior Member

    Okay so after reading this it gave me the confidence to give it ago. After a few hours of figuring it all out and which design I wanted to go with I now have a plan and templates for the cross sections of the 15ft sea kayak I am now about to start cutting out. (I just got enough marine grade plywood for $8 by buying offcuts instead of a full sheet)

    Now for the Gunwales, chines and hull. Does it really matter what size the thickness/width is? Does it have any benefits/cons?
     
  10. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    I have built over a dozen SOF hulls, I am not sure your question about size/thickness/width. Do you mean size of the hull, or size of the individual framing members?

    I have found, unless you are very large, that gunwales of about 1x2, or even 1x3 (if you are large) are all that is necessary, most stringers are 3/4"x3/4", and steam bent frames are about .2 or .25 x 3/4" spaced at about 6 to 8" apart. This is for a typical greenland type hull. Aleut bidarkas are somewhat different in structure, and have a lot more parts and details. I recommend starting with a west greenland type hull first.

    You size it according to your body size, transitional measurements are hull length: 3 times your outstretched hands finger tip to finger tip. max beam is your hip width, plus two fists (that makes it actually a bit wide, I prefer hips plus one fist). depth at the rear coaming is rarely more than about 6" in a traditional greenland hull, make the bottom fairly flat (shallow V) or it will be too tippy for a beginner. the tallest part is the mastic, that only has to be tall enough "arch" to allow you to slide you legs into the hull, some make it tall for lots of room, some make it just low enough to slide into it so it makes for a low profile hull.
     
  11. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    3/4" works fine for all framing members. it is nice to have a table saw to cut your own stringer stock from larger lumber (saves a lot of cost), but if you do not have access to that you can take an inexpensive circular saw and screw it down to a bench, blade up, with some guide blocks to make it into a type of table saw. I have done it, works good if there is a quality blade in it, you can buy a suitable used circular saw for less than $20 at second hand stores or private sales. A plane is not necessary if the cuts are fairly clean, you can hand sand them to clean them up, or use a belt sander if you have one. Or you can leave them rough, it is just not as pretty. Traditional native water craft were never that highly finished, they were work boats used to gather food, not fine pieces of furniture. There is no reason you have to make your look like a polished dining room table. Just make it fit together, clean up the corners, and get the skin on it.

    Almost any wood has been used to build kayaks, and boats in general. Any reasonably clear and straight grain wood can be used. Light weight and good rot resistance is nice but not necessary, kayaks do not spend their life in the water like a large heavy boat, but should be allowed to dry out between used and usually are stored hanging in a garage or shed, even under the eve of a house.

    I have used doug fir, several types of cedar, oak, western hemlock, and what ever I can find with good properties (I usually salvage my lumber for old wood piles, construction sites, etc.). the only thing I buy if I can not find long enough pieces are the gunwale and stringer stock. I have seldom spent more than $100 building a skin-on-frame kayak, the most expensive part is the skin (nylon or polyester fabric)

    good luck
     
  12. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Well done. The challenge is all part of the fun.

    Petros sizing - 3/4" of an inch means lightness with adequate strength. Lightness will be a big benefit, and a big reason you go for SOF in the first place.

    A 1 x 3 or 1 x 2 gunnel seems very solid to me. It also create the problem of curving the member from the bow to the stern - 3" is not easy to bend even over 15ft. If you have trouble bending it, I would cut it narrower.

    I have built a 21' SOF with 1/2"x1/2" stringers and gunwale, for lightness, but it had problem with point loads, and with secure joining to stems and stern sections.


    The big problem may getting long enough lengths. In these times of limited timber, you may end up with a maximum of ~ 2 metres ( 8ft ) for stock lengths.

    You can try a scarfe joint of course. I took the step of cutting the 'longs' in half, and laminating the two lengths together, overlapping at the centre of course. The laminating has the advantage of maximising the strength where knots or 'runouts' of grain might be a problem.

    The other advantage of a 'square' section, is that it lends itself to shaping. The easiest stringer shape to bend is a dowel ( round ), as no matter which way it bends ( up down, in out ) the angles to the next stringer are always correct, and complex shaping is avoided. ( see attached )

    If you have plans, surely it specifies the suggested sizes ?
     

    Attached Files:

  13. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Don't tease us anymore.

    What 15' SOF kayak are you building?

    Like Watson said - follow the plans.
     
  14. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    Are you bending the ribs. or are you cutting them, and building them to fit?

    The flatter the bottom, the easier it will be for a first time paddler. The rounder the bottom, the easier it will be to do 'tricks.'

    The same is true for more rocker rather than less.

    Are you skinning with plywood? Or are you using ply as part of your supports? Ribs, stringers, keelson, and 'gunwales?'

    And which plan?

    wayne
     

  15. Martin B.
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    Martin B. Junior Member

    ChuckyNZ

    If you want to contact somebody near your home (Auckland) for some guidance and assistance on SoF building then see http://www.kayakfishingnz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=7779 and follow the build by "glint" of a Yost Sea Rider skin-on-frame.

    Alternatively, see my build story of a Yost Sea Cruiser on http://www.seakayakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=1874
    You probably have to "register" to see the pics but there is a huge collection of SoF information on the Aust Sea Kayak Forum.

    "Glint" [Roger] and I have had many email exchanges during our building processes swapping hints and opinions and I am sure he would be quite happy to give you any guidance you may need.

    Cheers and best building fortune.
     
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