Shape Up Or Ship Out !!

Will, with all due respect, and appreciating your frustration, you final words seem to reflect the very attidute and language you wish to see baned from from the forum.

That being said, I also agree with you. I to get trapped in the wise, rather unsensitive remark when I see someone else abusing the site or pretending to be something they are not... so I do agree.

What has always mistified me is that this site, to me as a general user, has had a very very low profile adminstration. I have no idea who the adminstrator might be... he/she has posted something like 63 times in 8 years.. and I do not know who the moderater are... Perhaps it would be a good idea if the 'watch dogs' of this great site would take a bit more public position in regard to protecting its principles.

I really regret the departure of any contributor - but then too, we have to realize that we will alway have leeches, angry people, scam artists, egotist, among the many who really do want to help. One of the best ways to get rid of the bad apples is to ignore them... or see them as entertainment... any intelligent person will be able to see the good for the bad and always benefit from this forum. In that light, I think the departure of these more respected contributors, if only for the reason that they were confronted with unpleasant, for them, posts, is only punishing the good people in this forum, and perhaps themselves. The people who drove them away are either happy, or did not even notice, so in that sense, leaving the forum served no purpose. I can only hope they will come back with another name, and a fresh approach to helping the good among us.

Grant

 

Grant - I take your point about the last line of my post. Trust me... I toned it down a great deal....
But I'm not without blame here - I know I've posted things in the past in an off-the-cuff response that may have been taken in the wrong way. For that I sincerely apologise.
It's also important to recognise that this is an international forum and people interperet things in different ways.

Jeff is the moderator and has IMHO done an outstanding job of building this site into THE pre-eminent boat design site. His level of moderation has worked very well for a long time... it's only recently that things have descended to the level that they are now. The question though, is not what is HE going to do about it.... it's what are WE going to do about it. This is a community... as such we all have a responsibility to see that we treat one another with respect.

 

A couple of years before I joined with my present account, I was a member for a short time, with another username. My reason for ending that earlier association was my realization that, at the time, this appeared to be a forum for "experts". Though my rejoining was for a peculiar reason, when the dust cleared, I realized that there was much to be gained in these forums, for those with a passion for marine vessel design & construction, by those with the same passion.

There will always be disagreements on how to go about designing or constructing boats & their components, if there weren't, it would be because everything was the same. The personal attacks, however, we can do without. It is very difficult to not respond, in kind, to such attacks, yet, this is where the downward spiral of a thread begins. In responding to insults, I have gotten a few of those downward spirals going. When I look back on some of those old threads, I see a lot of valuable information impregnated with craters of bile, spreading the thread across several more pages than it needed to be.

Solutions?

1) If "students" asking questions offend the "professionals", may I suggest two new sections? Design 101 and Boatbuilding 101.
2) The one who initiates a thread should have the ability to delete/edit any post to that thread.
3) Allow for only positive reputation points, or show the username for both positive and negative reputation points.

A final point regarding the much-maligned "student": Some members are upset by what they view as a student having the professionals do their homework for them. Though these same professionals may feel cheated out of an expensive formal education, traditionally, both design and construction of marine vessels have been skills passed down from the "journeyman" to the "apprentice". In most cases, one will find that the student is simply trying to get his/her head around some concept/practice. The easiest solution is for the professional who does not wish to assist to merely remain silent.

Mike

Added: Jeff, it is not flaws in the forums structure which create these situations, merely, what happens when people from all walks of life gather. My suggestions are in consideration of this. I don't think that anyone believes that you can single-handedly police each thread, still, you may need to appoint a few firemen, to put out the flames where they start.

 

This is more of a personal observation than a comment. It seems the rep points (yes that again) have fostered a more conversational style of posting with rep points been given for support or for the entertainment value of the banter, this may encourage a more flippant attitude. The rep points can or have become a beauty contest rather than a gauge of experience.

 

yes, but it still takes considerable time to amass rep points, and even more to get negative rep points! They are a good base system, that may be modified so that negative rep is equal to ban or some other restriction. As it is you would already start with ten chances, Which sounds fair, no?

 

FWIW, I joined this forum about 6 months ago. themultihull.com has died (for now) and yahoo got a bit boring so I went looking for intersting reading.

Frankly I was shocked at some of the threads I found. I was, and am, quite amazed certain people have not been banned from this forum. Their nastiness would not be tolerated on other forums.

PAR contributes to other forums, where the discussion is far more polite. Jokes abound, disagreements happen, but a line is maintained.

If members can't control themselves then I really think the moderators should step in. These services are offered free, and are both enjoyable and helpful. They do not deserve to be hijacked as conduits for personal abuse by a minority.

2c.

 

We have some very knowledgeable people who contribute here. Damn, I sure don't want to lose any of them. It seems that there are a few characters who post here that are not aware of their own ignorance and/or absence of social skills. We know who the legitimate people are. We can recognize the trouble makers too. So why not make an effort to simply fail to respond to the ******** who are bent on making a fuss.

I have a humorous (or not so humorous) book that has a compilation of laws and observations.
Dean Martin: you are not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on...Erma Brombecks rule of medicine states: Never go to a doctor whose office plants have died. A sentence that may apply here is Torquemadas Law; When you know that you are right you have a moral duty to impose your will upon anyone who disagrees with you. The latter is supposed to be humorous but a few people, the self styled genius types, take it quite seriously. I'm going with the real intellects as far as I can determine their identities. Come back PAR we miss you already.