Shallow Draft & Standing Headroom (Pipe dream)

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Marvout, Nov 26, 2013.

  1. Marvout
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Marvout Junior Member

    Back in the 90's I ended up in Vancouver at a floating boat show. By the time the day was over, I had ended up in a 43' Hunter Legend and was officially smitten. One very tall stack of Wooden Boat Magazines later, after three small wooden boat builds, I 'defected' and bought myself a used 22' trailer-sailer. The wooden boat purist in me is still dealing with the blasphemy of my FRP boat, but it was the cheapest way to get something large enough to get my whole family on. I've enjoyed it immensely this season and am still in awe of the irrational amount of pleasure having your own 'big' little boat on the water brings.

    But, what do I dream about when I play the 'If I had a million dollars' game in my head? What's my 'next' boat? This is a pipe dream question, not an actual upgrade question. I have a shallow river mouth and small basin I need to be able to pass through, so anything with a non-lifting keel/centerboard would prevent me from getting home with my boat. What is the list of boats I get to choose from that give me essentially a Hunter 43' but also the shallow draft (2' to 2'6", definitely not more than 3'.) of my Tanzer 22> Is this doable without going to a multihull?
     
  2. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    Yes, but you are going to end up in a sharpie. Having "standing" headroom all depends on what "standing" is, so how tall you are will play in here. 6'-4" headroom may make for a boxy looking house/s....depends on the final length. See Reuel Parker's "The Sharpie Book", or google "san juan sharpie".

    Edit...also see this thread
    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?153306-History-of-San-Juan-Sharpie
     
  3. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

  4. frank smith
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    frank smith Senior Member

    What size boat are you thinking about? The are lots of designs that fit the draft and headroom requirement, but not in anything much less than 26 feet. A presto type hull would do, maybe a NIS 31

    http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/31plans.html
     
  5. frank smith
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    frank smith Senior Member

  6. Jacques B.
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    Jacques B. Junior Member

    My Tjalk "almost" fits the bill:

    LOL: 64'
    Beam: 13'
    Draft: 3'9'' (at the rudder skeg) / 3'0'' (at the bottom)
    Air Draft: 10'0'' (with the mast folded)
    44'2'' (with it up)
    Displacement: 40 Metric Tons
    Head Room: 8'6'' (in the Salon)
    7'0'' (in the Forward Berth)

    Plus, she's easy on the eyes.

    Granted, a Tjalk is no Hunter 44 performance-wise, and you're not about to sail the ocean blue in one, but if you and your wife have managed to make at least 4 strong, healthy kids, coastal sailing is a definite possibility.
     
  7. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    When I get requests like this ("can I have a 24' sailing cruiser with 24" of draft and 6' headroom"), I supply them a profile of a 6' human and a 24' boat of typical shoal draft proportions and ask them to sketch one up.

    These sketches often end up looking like a small Winnebago has been parked on a 24' barge and we move on. I've attached an attempt from one of my clients. It's 24' LOA, 24" draft and has just under 6' of headroom, without regard to hull or roof thickness. He reversed the sheer to make the freeboard more effective, but it's still not a viable concept. The only way this can work is to use a hollow keel as a foot well, much like the American 26. Henry Arthur patented this idea, though I'm sure others have done it and he built boats under Reinell and eventually as American Mariner Industries, which included this feature. I've sailed the 26 and it does surprisingly well, given it's 30" draft. Yes, it pretty much sucks to windward, but doesn't skid off nearly as much as I suspected it might.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    These are pages in the patent, showing the fat, shoal keel idea. You can't appreciate the size of this "appendage" until you see it in person. It's a big hunk of low aspect fin.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. frank smith
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    frank smith Senior Member

    Par , what is the attached drawing about?
     
  9. Eric Sponberg
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    Eric Sponberg Senior Member

    Have you looked at the Seaward sailboats from Hake Yachts:

    http://www.seawardyachts.com/

    They have a 26'er, a 32'er, and a 46'er, all with lifting keels for very shallow draft. I designed the keels and bulbs for all three boats, as well as the hull of the 46. I also just finished the hull, keel, and bulb of their new Fox, is a new 19'er. We hope to start working on a new 39-40'er soon.

    Eric
     
  10. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Yes, but does the 26RK have standing headroom?
     
  11. jehardiman
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    jehardiman Senior Member

    Not for me...6'4" (1.93m) :p
     
  12. JosephT
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    JosephT Senior Member

    Eric, nice work on those retractable keels. The fleet of boats at Seaward look promising. I'm curious to know more about how these boats feel while heeling on a beam reach, for example. Say you've got a 15kt wind on a beam reach and you're healing over with the keel fully extended, then decide to retract it (you see a shallow reef ahead!!!).

    Beyond this, it would obviously make more sense to retract it while entering/leaving shallow harbors (and under reduced sails while you are at it).

    Just curious as to the feel of the keel in extended vs. retracted position while under way.

    Thx,

    Joseph
     
  13. Eric Sponberg
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    Eric Sponberg Senior Member

    Under the main hatch cover on the 26, the headroom is 5'-10", and further forward it is 5'-8".

    Eric
     
  14. Eric Sponberg
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    Eric Sponberg Senior Member

    I don't have any personal experience with sailing the Seawards, but I would say that, in the situation you describe, you would be much better off turning around than you would be by retracting the keel. When you retract the keel, you will heel more, and if you were really experienced with the boat to retract it while sailing, then that might be a good emergency tactic. Seamanship takes practice. But I don't think the lifting keel was designed with that in mind as its primary use. It was meant to make the boat more versatile by allowing it to get into shallow draft areas where fixed keel boats can't go. Prudence in all things is necessary, and one of the first rules about that is to stay away from reefs!

    Eric
     

  15. goodwilltoall
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    goodwilltoall Senior Member

    Seaward yachts is at the forefront of shallow draft production yachts maybe even the best.
     
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