Seagoer Plans

I think it is quite unfair to be alarmist for the building of a double sawn frame timber plank vessel, round bilge or hard chine.
I never used a crane in my life, and I don't see the necessity, it will have slow down the operation. Never seen a backhoe ether, nor never needed. The frames as to be assembled at the keel level, then slided in place. Even one person can do that.
As for the huge drill, and huge fasteners? Are they really huge? no they are not. I never been in a position to run away been threatened by a fastener to big for me.
I find otherwise necessary a crane for these huge plywood panels who fly every were at the slightest breeze.
I find the gallons of epoxy quite unpleasant and with a questionable health result with all the sending required.
And the price of the whole epoxy plywood is also high

So my point is: I don't see anything wrong for any way to built a boat, but it is not a good thing to dismiss one method making it not suited anymore and sticking to just one way to built.


As for speed of boat, well I always enjoyed the journey, I never cared when I will arrive.
But that's me, and I understand for some to want some performances. A lot of sailor are on a tight schedule, it is very unfortunate but I respect that

 

That was me, so thanks for posting

Informative discussion going on here, all contributors thanks

Please continue . . .

Cheers,
Angel

 

Here here......There are many ways to build a boat, and an endless selection of designs and construction philosophies. That's what makes all this so fascinating. How can I adapt xx's solution to my needs, tools, material, budget, etc...?

My Grandfather and father built boats on the beach in the open, that's what they had. They did have a simple mill to saw out the lumber but beyond that it was all hand tools. The results were simple and nothing like what we call high-performance, but did a job and carried the crew on many adventures.

Gillcrest jacks, peavey's, come-a-longs, hand tools for mechanical advantage rather than heavy equipment and power tools.

 

If you look at the construction plan for Seagoer, the main timber in the deadwood assembly is about 35' long, 12" tall and likely 6" to 8" wide. If made from Douglas fir, that's a 2,500 pound timber, if made from white oak it's a 3,800 pound timber. I don't know about you, but erecting these timbers, upright on on their sides then standing the whole assembly up, isn't for the weak hearted, let alone an old back.

Sure you could laminate this puppy, but eventually, you'll have to have a crane hoist this baby onto something to get you to the local puddle she'll live in. Maybe a homemade cradle with big wheels and your neighbor's ox team?

On the Juno/Olga style of Buehler like plans, it's even worse, with 10" - 12" wide, 35' long deadwood assemblies of solid timber, stacked up for several feet. Why? It doesn't need to be this heavy, it doesn't help the build cost or effort either, and sailing ability isn't enhanced at all with this antique arrangement.

Agreed, you can build this way, but again most aren't looking for an ice breaking monolithic beast, as much as a practical, cost effective, relatively easy to build structure, that isn't prone to leakage, rot and other typical formalities of these types of builds. The modern builder isn't going to fell his own stock, take an adz to it and call it a day. He's going to buy as much as he can from a big box store, prefer to use plywood to cover 32 sq. ft. sections in one shot and rely on modern goos. Yeah, you can use pitch and hand honed tunnels, but I see this as a very, very small portion of the home built market.

I have built the way Daniel has in his recent putt putt, which looks very nice, but had I built a similar set of shapes, it would be half the weight, much faster to build, wouldn't have a plank seam every 6", the hull would be homogenous and her performance would be superior, particularly in regard to fuel consumption. Granted his boat doesn't use much fuel, but this is a power, versus weight and resistance thing and a boat half as heavy is easier and cheaper to propel, not to mention costs of materials for the project.

 

That's why I used steel. Bugger the 32 sq ft, I was using 10' x 6' steel sheets, 60 sq ft at a time. And the 'goo' holding the plates together was the same as the parent material....

However I did build a gantry first. Shrug. One day of work and I can position anything up to a tonne anywhere I need to, no back strain, no chance of it getting away, and move it to location with literally millimeter precision using a couple of cheap lever blocks.

I understand the point you're making but really, I'm more on Tad's side of the argument. It's a case of whatever floats your boat unless you're building boats for a living, in which case time & materials costs become critical.

PDW

 

Agreed, you should build what you want and if a traditionally built Tahiti ketch is what floats your soul, then have fun.

 

I think 2000 hours completely done are not slow for building my boat considering I worked alone but three week with the help of my son. Plywood/epoxy will have taken the same time, and much much more money. I have the books to show it.
I didn't intended in a second to design a light boat, the choice of displacement was cast at the genesis of the project.
As for the performances, I am the only one who knows about, since I sail it.
If you had built my boat it is non-sence. You will have built an other boat more suitable for your need.
My boat was just a parentheses in my life, not a statement of what we should do by far. It was just for me, having fun. And I have a ton of fun.
It is not a question to characterize the classic builder choosing the tree on the forest, and the adze is not a necessary tool. It is cartoonish so to speak.
Some balance is needed when we talk about construction method.
The Tahiti ketch is not the only timber built boat in the world for backyard builder
I don't belong to a building cult. I like steel too, and I am attracted by ferro-cement.
But I was talking about construction a in a more larger spectrum, just trying to give an open mind to builders confronted with their first built.

 

Incidentally, I've *done* the 'fell your own trees' bit. I have a small circular sawmill with power feed carriage on my bush block. I've hired a man with a Lucas mill here in Tasmania and still have a big pile of blue gum timbers. They've been air drying for 7 years now.

It is very hard work felling and milling timber unless you have a lot of powered machinery and the recovery rate is 50% or less of what you start with. I would rather use steel or plywood any day.

Somewhere I have a publication with the lines & offsets for the Herreshoff H28. I'd rather build one of those than the Seagoer, personally.

PDW

 

Great pictures Tad.

 

I saw a link a month or so back about a Benford 37 for sale in the Carribean. Boat needed work, but assume hull was sound. Price was only $5K.

Aside, have seen some fiberglass monohulls for sale in pacific nw, around 22ft range, price was around $2,500. Obvioulsly not great boats, and they need some work. But you could buy one, do a little work inside, do the inside passage up to Alaska, then moor it over winter at some out of the way place, then next spring do a little more work on it, then go sailing again. Maybe after 3 years boat is best scrapped, but fiberglass does not not. Price's being asked are comparable with a planing dingy.