Seachoice fuel pump = Facet fuel pump

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by sdowney717, Jul 20, 2015.

  1. sdowney717
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    Location: Newport News VA

    sdowney717 Senior Member

    Seachoice name carries the USCG label, while the identical OEM facet name dose not, other than the label these are the same pump

    Facet 40288
    Seachoice 20341

    Difference is Facet is less cost.
    http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/facetpumps.php

    vs Seachoice
    http://www.jmsonline.net/seachoice-cube-electronic-fuel-pump-kit-45-30psi-12v-scp-20341.htm

    So If I get the Seachoice I am paying for a label?
    If I get the Facet, is it 'not USCG approved' even though it is the same pump?
    Think it would be a problem with the USCG if they saw it to get the Facet?
     
  2. keysdisease
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    Location: South Florida USA

    keysdisease Senior Member

    What makes fuel related components USCG is "spark" or "ignition" proof design. While they may look alike, that is the primary difference and it may not be visible. They may indeed be identical, they may not.

    Not good practice to have electrical equipment that sparks in the engine space of a gas powered boat. Boat go boom. :eek:

    The USCG doesn't care what you put in your boat, they are not going to look at your fuel pump, but if you blow it up your insurance company might want to look at it.

    :cool:
     
  3. whitepointer23

    whitepointer23 Previous Member

    The 1st says it is fitted with a nylon valve and plunger as specified by rutan aircraft. The 2nd marine 1 mentions an anti syphon valve.be careful using electric pumps with old petrol engines. If a needle sticks open it will just keep pumping fuel and if engine has stalled you end up with an engine bay full of fumes.
     
  4. sdowney717
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    I base it being identical on the description of the OEM Facet part number.
    Each advertisement is going to point to various descriptors in the pump depending on perceived application usage.

    As stated here

    Made in U.S.A by FACET.

    PSI: 4.5 - 3.0
    GPH: 30
    OEM #: 40288


    So if it is the same pump inside, which it is, can I legally use it in the boat?
    Facet also puts there OEM stamped on the bottom flanges. I should email the seller and see if he can tell me if it is stamped 40288.

    The anti-siphon valve is the internal check valve. I already have anti-siphon valve at the tank fitting.
    I setup the engines with Carter electrics run off an oil pressure switch, so if engine is off, they dont pump fuel.
    I also have a spring loaded primer button, hold it in to prime the carbs manually. When engine cranks they pump. Engine stops they stop.
    One of my Carters is bad, can no longer prime, so I decided I hate Carter rotary vane electric pumps now and want to use something else.
    They have an internal rubber relief valve which swells or cracks in ethanol gas, and it cant prime then, and you cant fix it. And that bad pump has had me docking twice now on one engine. And it fools you because sometimes it works and sometimes it wont. I verified it is a bad pump by swapping good pump from other engine and it works fine on the other engine. So i refuse to buy another Carter rotary vane electric pump. I have bought three and two have died and I wonder when the last working one will also die. I think it will.
     
  5. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    So If I get the Seachoice I am paying for a label?
    If I get the Facet, is it 'not USCG approved' even though it is the same pump?
    Think it would be a problem with the USCG if they saw it to get the Facet?

    The Coasties will probably not figure it out , but should you sell the boat a sharp surveyor might.
     
  6. sdowney717
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    I found an online source for the Seachoice pump for $52 with $6 USPS shipping. So $58 total which is only a little more so I went with that, just for the sake of preventing any possible misunderstanding if someone looked at it and had a conniption fit.:)
    A lot of shippers want UPS etc... to charge you $10 to $20 for shipping.
    http://eastmarine.us/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=239813

    When I get this pump, I will post back if a Facet number is stamped on the pump as 40288. If so, then exactly the same pump. Then I could simply copy the label and relabel a 40288 as Seachoice, which is exactly what Seachoice did, if I need another.
     
  7. sdowney717
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    Yes, it is just a Facet 40288 relabeled by Seachoice, this is stamped on the flange.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  8. AndySGray
    Joined: Jun 2014
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    AndySGray Senior Member

    The UL in the circle is the important one - Underwriters Laboratories.

    UL approval means you are in good stead with the insurance company be it a Seachoice or Facet.
     
  9. AndySGray
    Joined: Jun 2014
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    AndySGray Senior Member

    Hmm
    :?:
    BUT 574 is Oil Heaters and 574A doesnt get a hit at UL.com?

    The standard appears that it should be 1130?

    UL 1130 - Standard for Mechanically and Electrically Operated Fuel Pumps for Marine Use



    1.1 The requirements in this standard apply to the construction and performance characteristics of fuel pumps intended for marine use that are:

    a) Mechanically operated; or

    b) Electrically operated and rated 50 volts dc or less,

    1.2 The requirements also cover accessories such as oil pressure switches, if provided, for use with the pump.

    1.3 The pumps covered by these requirements are intended for installation and use in accordance with the applicable requirements of the U.S. Coast Guard (as specified in 33 CFR 183 Subpart J - Fuel Systems and 33 CFR 183 Subpart I - Electrical Systems ), the standards of the American Boat and Yacht Council, Inc. , and the Standard for Fire Protection of Pleasure and Commercial Motorcraft , NFPA 302 .

    1.4 These requirements do not cover mechanically or electrically operated marine fuel pumps intended for use in hazardous locations as defined in the United States Coast Guard Electrical Engineering Regulations. See 46 CFR Section 111.105-1 .

    1.5 These requirements cover ignition-protected pumps (for use with gasoline) that may be required on boats under 65 feet (19.8 m) in length. Pumps for use with diesel fuel are not required to be ignition protected.

    1.6 A product that contains features, characteristics, components, materials, or systems new or different from those covered by the requirements in this standard, and that involves a risk of fire or of electric shock or injury to persons shall be evaluated using appropriate additional component and end-product requirements to maintain the level of safety as originally anticipated by the intent of this standard. A product whose features, characteristics, components, materials, or systems conflict with specific requirements or provisions of this standard does not comply with this standard. Revision of requirements shall be proposed and adopted in conformance with the methods employed for development, revision, and implementation of this standard.

    So UL approval also covers USCG suitability

    Might be worth an email to Seachoice as to the 574A vs. 1130 clarification?
     
  10. AndySGray
    Joined: Jun 2014
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    AndySGray Senior Member

    Is there a stamp elsewhere as the label doesn't say USCG approved?

    e.g Fuel line is very well labelled as compliant

    FIRE-ACOL USCG TYPE 1 SAE J1527
     
  11. sdowney717
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    http://www.seachoice.com/wp-content...5 Seachoice Flip Book_rev020615/index.html#61
    click on page 61 for a description which mentions ignition rating approved USCG.

    I think UL's 574a is their internal listing number assigned to all Facet pumps.

    This pump is a heavy thick chunk of steel, can't imagine it not passing a fire test. I think they are magnetically driven piston action, so it is all sealed.
    Pump comes with the filter and a brass fitting which are 5/16 hose.

    I have a large filter before the pump, and a 3/8 hose 1/8 pipe thread fitting to use since my line is 3/8 hose, so probably wont be using them. Their supplied fittings have a large internal diameter around 5/16 inch, not 1/8 inch. I have seen narrow 1/8 pipe and wider 1/8 pipe fittings. The narrow diameter opening 1/8 pipe is thick wall for high pressure hydraulic fluid apps.
     
  12. AndySGray
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    AndySGray Senior Member

    Yep, totally agree.

    How much does it cost us all for the bureaucrats to protect the 'lemming minority':?:

    I remember an article about a businessman who wanted an executive jet with more room and comfort than a little Learjet - bought a used boeing and had it remodelled inside.
    Apparently the fire testing for the marble countertops in the bathrooms actually cost more than the imported Italian marble! The CAA were the only ones on the planet unsure about if marble actually catches fire, DUH!
     
  13. sdowney717
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    Installed pump today and I like it a lot.
    It easily primed, sucking fuel very well.

    When it first starts empty, makes quite a racket, then as it pumps fuel gets real quiet. When it finished filling the fuel bowl and the pressure built, the gauge read 3 PSI and pumping got a little noisier.

    It pumps out a decent stream of fuel. I turned off the pump and it held PSI on the gauge as long as I was there, so several hours, no leak down. If I get another, I think I will buy the 40288 (if cheaper).
     
  14. sdowney717
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    sdowney717 Senior Member

    I am starting to have some troubles with the pump.
    It has lost it's prime multiple times.
    It takes a long long time to prime.
    It makes me want to buy another Carter rotary vane pump.

    I think it has a lot of trouble sucking gas with the antisiphon valve which the USCG requires at the tank outlet. Watching the pressure when the motor runs,

    What I notice
    1. lets says it is at 3psi.
    2. engine idling draws down fuel
    3. pump has to catch up since anti siphon valve is closed, the PSI drops to 1 psi, the pump starts to create a vacuum on the intake fuel line
    4. the anti siphon valve starts to open,
    6. psi gauge jerks wildly and rapidly at a very low number
    5. pressure slowly builds back to 3 psi.
    6. cycle repeats endlessly

    I can not win!
    I have 2 engines, one has the Carter pump, the other this Faucet pump.
    The Carter is a much more powerful pump, the Faucet can not compete, sometimes the carter will suck fuel from the Faucet as a fuel source, so the Faucet looses it's prime and shuts down.

    Then the Faucet is pumping air, so every time it pumps air, guess what the Carter pump may do? It can loose it's prime also so then the other engine shuts down. Now neither pump is pumping fuel.

    Usually it is just the Faucet pump cant pump fuel but sometimes it kills th carter pump also.

    I have been running both engines from the one tank, splitting the fuel at the fuel manifold to both pumps. See I have a second tank, but dont use it.

    I read glowing revues here about an Airtex similar pump.
    http://www.amazon.com/Airtex-E8251-...iewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

    But this one is likely better.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carter-P4594-Electric-Fuel-Pump-/400860821787?hash=item5d552ab91b&vxp=mtr

    Either way seems like pumps and me dont last long. With the Carters, at least I got couple years, but even then that is not very many hours for a boat.

    Does anyone make decent fuel pumps? The best pumps were the mechanical diaphragm pumps, in my experience, but that was before E10 Alcohol in gasoline. Otherwise I would switch back.
     

  15. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    gonzo Senior Member

    The vent on a marine fuel pump will send fuel into the intake manifold in case of a pump failure. The other type will let the fuel empty into the bilge; they are not legal to use on boats.
     
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