Sailboat building literature

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by pironiero, May 5, 2020.

  1. pironiero
    Joined: Apr 2020
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    Location: saint-petersburg, Russia

    pironiero Junior Member

    whats wrong with russian wood?
     
  2. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    Weight. Do you know of any wood species that is commercially harvested in the russian federation that is under 450kg/cubic meter? Or for that matter any plywood made there that is under 500kg/cubic meter?
     
  3. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Pironiero, there is nothing 'wrong' as such with Russian wood - apart from it's weight, as Rumars mentions above .
    It will not create a lightweight structure like something built using a carbon fibre sandwich - and for a 15 metre boat to weigh 'only' 7 tonnes it would have to use some fairly exotic composites.
    Rumars is gently suggesting to you that 10 tonnes would be a much more optimistic weight for this boat if you build it with timber.
     
  4. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    Well, just to show what's possible, this is Ester, buildt 1901, LOA: 15,38m, B: 3,08m, displacement: 3,8t. No glue, no carbon, no titanium, no Dyneema, just gorgeous.
    Ester: The classic Swedish racing yacht that came back from the dead https://www.yachtingworld.com/extraordinary-boats/ester-classic-swedish-racing-yacht-125105

    What he wants is possible, but designing and building it is not for the amateur. 10t is a safe number for a cruising boat with a modern canoe body form and light interior. I can even give examples if needed.
     
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  5. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    gonzo Senior Member

    The description of that boat states they had "disregard for the cost". For example, each rivet was hand-drilled to make them hollow and lighter. The engineering and construction of a super high performance boat like that is beyond the skills of an amateur. It actually needs a whole team of highly experienced designers and workers. Also, it requires constant and expensive maintenance.
     
  6. pironiero
    Joined: Apr 2020
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    pironiero Junior Member

    thats why im here, to tell my thoughts and get your suggersions, if 10t is more realistic-i have no problem with it.
     
  7. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    For you to study as inspiration:
    Balta Patrick Architecte naval, architecture navale, Motor yacht, yacht design, catamaran http://www.balta.fr/adelie.html This is a 15,2m boat with a medium displacement of 9,5t, strip planked with spruce. Homebuildt
    http://www.balta.fr/tocade50img.html This is a 14,95m boat, loaded displacement 12t (10,6t empty), cold molded over strip planking (khaya over spruce).

    There are enough photos of the construction and interiors to give you an ideea what avaits you. Just to be clear, if the goal is building the boat and not designing it, buying one of this plans would be the smart thing to do.
     
  8. pironiero
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    pironiero Junior Member

    thank you
     
  9. pironiero
    Joined: Apr 2020
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    pironiero Junior Member

    I don't quite get it-for a 50 ft boat were used only one layer of strip planked of wood covered with one layer of veneer? I thought that for boat this size you will need at least 3 layers of veneer
     
  10. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    There are no rules. The structure must resist the calculated forces, that's all. How you do this is your business as a designer. I chose two boats that are pretty similar and from the same designer to illustrate exactly this point.
    Adelie has one layer of strip planking with only fiberglass outside, no veneer, Tocade has one layer strip planking, two layers veneer, and then fiberglass, all on the outside. Both have laminated frames without fiberglass on the inside. The same designer has 40-50ft boats with fiberglass on both sides of the strips and without laminated frames, only bulkheads and floors.
    Other designers use strip planking alone, on frames, no fiberglass or veneer at all. Another version is veneer over strip plank, no fiberglass, with or without frames.
    Again other designers have similar boats all cold molded without any strip planking. The individual veneers can be 2-3mm thick or 6-8mm thick. There can be two, three, five layers or more. There can be many stringers inside with a thin skin, or there can be no stringers and a thick skin.
    All of this methods work if sized correctly. Today everything is glued with epoxy, but in the past resorcinol and ureea formaldehyde or melamine glues were used with screws or nails, and sometimes no glue at all, just thick paint.
    The weirdest method I have seen reported, was deep oak frames made single layer with gussets, close spaced larch stringers, then one layer of 4mm plywood layed diagonally, everything fastened with nails, and over the plywood fiberglass with polyester resin. The boat was buildt before epoxy was used for boats and has gone to a complete refit just a few years ago after sailing many miles. The original construction lasted 50 years with just oil and some paint, and a lot of it is still sound. All this for a 14m, 10t boat.
     

  11. pironiero
    Joined: Apr 2020
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    Location: saint-petersburg, Russia

    pironiero Junior Member

    I have a lot of calculations to do
     
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