Rudder Design

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Julio767, May 27, 2022.

  1. Julio767
    Joined: May 2022
    Posts: 4
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: Argentina

    Julio767 New Member

    Hello everyone, this is Julio from Argentina.

    I currently have a 30ft cruiser/racer boat. The class is Fayd 30. Upwind speed 6.5/7 knots and downwind generally 8/10 knots (maximum so far was 18 knots).

    The problem I have is that the rudder stock diameter is 2.83in aluminium but it should have used 2in steel and the rudder is very thick. The profile is not very good and I plan to replace it.

    Rudder thickness will go from 3.54 in now to 1.97 in.

    I´m planning to use 0012 to 0014 naca profiles. (12.5% in the upper part and 14% in the lower). Jefa rudders uses the same but they have 14% in the upper part and 12 in the lower.

    Is there any advantage on using a thicker profile? I've read naca 00 tests and only 0008 seems to lose lift very soon.

    thank you in advance.

    regards
     
  2. Julio767
    Joined: May 2022
    Posts: 4
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: Argentina

    Julio767 New Member

    This would be the design.
     

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  3. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Welcome to the Forum Julio.

    I don't know anything about the finer details of rudder design - however I am thinking that if your boat can sail down wind at 8 - 10 knots happily, and even reach 18 knots without the rudder losing grip / stalling, then it is doing a pretty good job really (?)
    If you change the stock diameter then you will need new bushings as well in the stock tube, in addition to a new rudder.
    Is it really worth it?
     
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  4. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 2,000
    Likes: 594, Points: 113
    Location: Victoria BC Canada

    BlueBell . . . . .

    Welcome indeed Julio.

    Is there anything else wrong with the rudder?
    I would not go changing anything.
    The overall shape of the rudder is more important than its width.
    Is it the rudder the boat was designed to have?
     
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  5. Julio767
    Joined: May 2022
    Posts: 4
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    Location: Argentina

    Julio767 New Member

    Thank you Bajansailor and BlueBell for your responses!

    The problem is that the rudder is very inefficient so I think I would benefit from the change and PHRF formula doesn´t take into account this change. If everything is correct I will have more lift and less drag with the new rudder.

    If it was for cruising I wouldn't change anything but for racing 0.1/0.2 knot increase means being more competitive.

    A friend of mine can do the stock labor so it won't be that expensive.

    I´m finishing a keel mod and I´m adding running backstays so the boat will be a different one after all the mods :).
     
  6. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 2,000
    Likes: 594, Points: 113
    Location: Victoria BC Canada

    BlueBell . . . . .

    Really? How inefficient is it?
    And, how much more efficient is a new rudder.

    You'd gain more benefit by removing weight from the boat.
    However, this is your project and to answer your question you're going to need to look at lots of details as to what wing profile to choose.
    Others with experience in your boat and differing rudders may be better off to comment.
    Best of luck with your modification.
     

  7. Julio767
    Joined: May 2022
    Posts: 4
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: Argentina

    Julio767 New Member

    Using same rudder surface Area it seems I´ll have 10% more lift and 30% less drag (using naca tables). Are will be reduced 10%.

    I don't even have an inboard engine to reduce weight :):):)
     
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