Row boat for hire 18ft design

Ok here go's im going to open up a can of worms me thinks!

I'll start with who i am and then move onto what i'm trying to achieve.

I started looking into boat design as a project purely to learn solidworks CAD.

And quickly fell in love with the subject of boats , i have spent many a lunch time reading the forum's on the site and love the complex mix of processional armature and novice comments , the balance makes for a good read.

I'm an Novice builder of but one 9ft hard chine ply boat , designed by myself.

I'm no designer , but can model and interpret a bit in Cad.

I've decided my home town could sustain a small row boat for hire business , I have two sons 14 and 11 who I would like to carve out a local business for.

I have look at purchasing locally built craft for the job Salters Steamers row boats. But my business model cannot support the outlay or general look for these.

I have also looked at purchasing Second hand Char boats from the lakes but they will take allot of looking after and i will be dry storing the boats out of season which may degrade them quicker ?

Hiring out small boats is a weather/numbers game and 1 will need to start with at least 6 craft.

My only option is therfore to design and make my own craft, this is where i need the help . I have several criteria to meet :

1 They must look traditional
2 They must be very stable for novice rowers
3 They will need to carry 4 to 5 people at a push
4 Easily built and maintainable stitch and glue
5 Built in Buoyancy.

I can create flat patterns using the sheet Metal function in solidworks and propose to cut sheet marine ply using cad patterns.

I have made a start at the design but am now grinding to a Holt on where to work out if this things going to be stable , i have made the gar boards flat to give the impression of a round bottom boat in the water but creating a more stable craft , is this ok? does a flat bottom create this affect?

Sorry to all the hardcore designers who will no doubt be squirming at my sad attempt but we all need to start with something...!

Lastly here is my website that hopefully will explain what i am trying to create, and the river conditions the craft will be used for.

RCD Directives so i'm legal and compliant, does anyone here know about this

legal jungle when it comes to building you own craft that will then be used by the public?


I have yet to present my Business model to my local council for approval and cannot until i have resolved the craft type and look. thamesboating.co.uk

go the the "how to row page" for some cad images! 18ft, 4.5 beam,

Few i need a cupa tea now!

Danny

 

I'm in no way a professional in boat design, but have looked at the RCD requirements. You will need to get your design and the boats approved before you can offer them for hire. This isn't too onerous, but does mean that you will need to ensure adequate stability and buoyancy, both of which will need to be demonstrated by test or calculations undertaken by an accredited professional, I believe. I don't think that you can get away with just a DIY paper exercise for RCD compliance if you intend to hire the boats out.

I am near-certain that buying a professional design will save you money, as the last thing you want is to go through the whole design and build and then discover that the boat doesn't pass RCD compliance and needs a redesign.

Take a look at some of the designs available from people like Selway Fisher, Fyne Boats and maybe one or two others in the UK. Their designers will be able to advise on RCD compliance and massively reduce the risk for you in trying to DIY with no real experience of what's required to make a stable, acceptably buoyant and easy to row, boat.

Bear in mind that hire boats will get bashed about a lot, so need to be over-built when compared to a boat you might build for yourself.

 

Stitch and glue is far too light , its not for RENTAL boats.

The usual construction is 2X lumber , that will be heavy and take dragging on rocks , and hopefully far to heavy to put on a roof rack.

Probably 14 -16 ft or so at least 200 lbs with 2 planks per side and a heavy ply floor .

Remember folks will store their bait knife by stabbing it in the floor or seat , so these will wear fast.

FF

 

Thank you Jeremy for the sound advice, perhaps i should concentrate on finding pre rcd ordained

craft suitable for my requirements after all.

Just one thing how do you think companies such as Browns Rowing Boats of Durham are complying with there traditional craft. is there an age clause in the rcd requirements?

I will trawl through the RCD Directive anyway ..

 

Good points Fred

Keep um coming.

 

No wonder no one gets anything done these days, looks like i have to fork out £500.00 quid just to access the RCD documents ?

Talk about cutting out the little guys!

 

Traditional craft have an exemption under the RCD at the moment, but any new boat will need to comply. There is a clause that allows a replica of a traditional boat to be built, without full RCD compliance, but I strongly suspect that you wouldn't be able to build a fleet of these and then use them for public hire.

RCD compliance for a rowing boat isn't onerous, but does require the input of an accredited individual, I believe. For example, if you build a boat as a DIY project then the RCD means you are forbidden from selling it for 5 years, as a means of restricting non-accredited vessels from getting into the hands of the general public.

Fast Fred's comments are OK, but I think he's thinking of a more vicious sort of hirer than those who will rent a boat on the river Thames for a day or a few hours! My guess is that 99% of your customers will be families or couples wanting a gentle row along the river for a few hours, rather than fishermen (plus I suspect that fishing is pretty tightly regulated on that stretch of the river). He's spot on about needing a tough boat though, as I mentioned earlier. Hirers won't be careful with hire boats and will treat them like dodgems, so they need to be over built.

If you want something traditional looking for the river, then take a look at something like Paul Fisher's Mandarin (http://www.selway-fisher.com/Rowskiffs.htm#MANDARIN) or his Port Sorrell (http://www.selway-fisher.com/Rowskiffs.htm#SORE). Beefed up I think these might do the job you're after.

Jeremy

 

Decide whether you really want to start a business ,or just want to design a wooden boat . If the business is the more important ,forget wood . Make or purchase a GRP mould in a traditional style ,clinker even looks good ,trim with wood by all means . You can then repair/replace cheaply and easily ,using your new found skills. You can choose your boats ,but not your customers ,trust me, they will beat the crap out of them.

 

My Priorities are to build a business first but i need somthing a little special to pull the punters down to maiidenhead , or they will just go to Windsor or Henley or Marlow all are using Salters boats , i was hoping for somthing a little more up market that may open other money makeing oportunities later.

Reality is hitting in now!

 

Jeremy thanks for the selway link i have emailed them. i would still need a third party to inspect my work to be compliant though wouldnt I ?

 

As the boats will almost certainly fall into Category D, you can self-certify them. This means you have to keep records of production control and the means by which you demonstrated to your own satisfaction that the craft complied with each aspect of the RCD. Usually, you'd do this by keeping a requirements check list together with the means (with evidence) by which you demonstrated compliance. Should you not do this adequately and there be an accident, then I would guess that you would find your self in hot water.

Self-certification means you still need to do things like a buoyancy test, and record the results, it just relieves you from the need to pay someone else to do it. The RCD (see here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/1464/regulation/10/made) is hard going, but there are some guides around that make understanding it a bit easier, like this one: http://www.marinesurveyor.co.uk/rcd.htm . In your case, about 90% of the RCD doesn't apply, which makes life a bit simpler.

As an example, for bigger boats there is a need to do a capsize test. Manufacturers often do this in open water with another boat standing by to video it. The video then forms part of the demonstration of compliance, should anyone come looking for it later.

You need to provide a plate with the CE mark and boat specs on each boat, plus produce a manual. This could just be a couple of pages for a rowing boat, specifying how to use and maintain it safely.

 

I owe you big time for this Jeremy! thank you so much , when i open up for business you will be getting willy wonka golden ticket. I have just read the About page on Paul Selway fisher and didnt know he's from my area i used to live in Woodley.

Its all coming clear now im going to read BARRIE MORSE now.

 

Some years ago i and a group of friends acquired a fleet of rowing boats from a lake at Petersfield in hampshire, they were Hanble river skiffs 16' x 42" beam. The local council decided that they had to comply with the RCD plus other restrictions, mainlyto do with insurance & health & safety, the boats owner faced with the prospect of replacing his fleet of sweet rowboats with hideous GRP skips with a point on the front promptly sold up & retired.
The Hamble river skiff was marketed for a while by Salterns boatyard? but i dont know if it was RCD compliant, probably way too unstable though i may be wrong!
Another big lake is Thorpeness in Norfolk where they run scores of boats, on a good sunny day its a licence to print money!
Regarding an 18ft boat you have pm.

 

The RCD CANNOT be applied retrospectively, so the Council were wholly in the wrong to demand this of an existing fleet of boats. The legislation is very clear that it only applies to boats manufactured after the date that the regulations were adopted.

Anyway, the RCD really isn't at all onerous for small craft in category D. About the only thing the majority of small rowing boats will need in order to comply will be some built in buoyancy, which is easy to provide.

 

True the RCD cannot be applied retrospectively, but the Council owned the water & leased it to the operator, Primarily they were worried about insurance liability should someone drown, & some jobsworth thought it a wonderful idea that the operator be made to replace his unsafe tippy old boats with new "safe" ones complying with the RCD, As the RCD was now best practice it was suggested he get new boats that complied. He chose to retire rather than go along with it. I know of at least one other lake where a fleet of perfectly good boats were retired for the same reasons.