River Roller! Pontoon Boat that Rolls Across the Water!

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Matthew Lee Towne, May 10, 2017.

?

Do you think the River Roller will work?

  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    2.4%
  2. No

    34 vote(s)
    82.9%
  3. Maybe

    6 vote(s)
    14.6%
  1. tom28571
    Joined: Dec 2001
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    Matthew, I don't see how graywolf's reply can be interpreted as a positive implication that your vehicle will achieve any of your original goals. The machine shown by claydog looks like the best example of an all everything, go anywhere vehicle that I've seen. Still, it's slow (very slow in water) and depends on a lot of body buoyancy to travel on/in the water. I know many people depend on polls and votes to establish credibility these days, but physics is simply impervious to such influences. No amount of well wishes will determine whether your machine works or not.

    Stating your task is very simple. Built a full scale working machine or even a working model that proves your scheme works and I, and I imagine every doubter here will offer proper respect and applause. The statement of the task is simple but actually doing it is another matter and is probably impossible while achieving (any of?) your original goals.
     
  2. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The basis for all true innovation, I'd speculate . . .
     
  3. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Location: Oviedo

    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    I'm sure i will not meet all of my objectives. But i will meet at least some if not most. Never say never.

    No doubt that making this a reality is a challenge. That's why i appreciate any input that helps me along that path.



     
  4. RonL
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    RonL Junior Member

    "Over the target, they must release the bomb from a set height, set speed and set distance from the dam, while under intense fire.

    The story of Barnes Wallis and the bouncing bomb has entered wartime mythology. But exactly how Wallis figured out his ingenious weapon is lost to history"

    In this story that played on PBS a few years ago, there was a lot of discussion about design for getting a barrel to not dig into water but rather skip at a predictable rate and stop next to a dam and explode. If you look it up you might find it an interesting watch and possibly pick up some tid-bit of physics related to your project.
    Just a thought.
     
  5. upchurchmr
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Read the whole thread.
     
  6. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Location: Oviedo

    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Hello All,
    I just thought I should post an update. While I still plan on fully testing my initial design, many different design options have occurred to me. You can all look forward to a version 2 in the near future. While there has been negativity here, there has been some constructive criticism. I hope to have V1 test results soon. If anyone has any suggestions for V2 I would be glad to hear them.
     
  7. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
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    Location: Victoria BC Canada

    BlueBell Ahhhhh...

    Although not a huge fan of Myth Busters, they did do a good episode on this subject.
    Check it out.
    And yes, read the whole thread...
    <EDIT> Oops, it wasn't Myth Busters, it was this linked Nova film with Buffalo Air "characters".
    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
  8. RonL
    Joined: Nov 2010
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    RonL Junior Member

    Twice it has been suggested that I read the whole thread :confused: so I have now read it two times, Par has mentioned something close to the thoughts I see in the following link. MLT can look or not.... up to him and he might make a connection or two maybe not. :)


    Edit.... I mentioned Par above, but it was rwatson that made comment about reverse rotation, sorry about that. :oops:
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  9. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Location: Oviedo

    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Hello All,
    I thought I should give you all an update. I have been playing around with a few design changes. These are based on the following:
    1. The ability of the River Roller to cut through waves. The original design would have little ability to cut through waves.
    2. The transition from slow to fast mode. While the ability to skip across the water, and paddle through the water are all proven, the ability to get from one to the other is not.
    3. The effectiveness of buoyant paddlewheels.
    That being said I have played around with several improvements to the original design.
    First a tapered horizontal layout might allow trailing trantoons to tread fresh water more effectively.
    Second a conical shaped trantoons might improve efficiency and distribute the propulsion among the trantoons.
    Third tapering smaller diameters front to rear might improve the ability to transition from slow to fast.
    Fourth adding paddles on the end of the trantoons might increase effectiveness and efficiency.
    That being said, and for patent purposes, I am presenting the following SCHEMATIC, CONCEPTUAL trantoon design and layout for your review.
    I need to emphasize that I don't think this is an end game design. Just something I am kicking around and thought is worthy of discussion. Which I'm sure many of you will find worthy of comment. In advance, I apologize for any possible Mad Max applications. ;->

    I look forward to your opinions.

    version2.png version23.png version24.png
     
  10. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Well I took a look, but I'm not sure of the connections on reverse rotation. I can't assume to make the connections you have made. Care to help me out?
     
  11. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    SamSam Senior Member

    It's hard to see what the physics of skipping stones or barrel bombs have to do with the boat.
    Even if something works, to be marketable it has to be appealing. This looks menacing and dangerous.
    Then there are the details of supporting and driving them, and steering.
    Did you try the model you were working on?
     
  12. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    The main reason for reverse rotation of the dam bombs was to ensure the "ran" down the inside of the dam walls to explode close to the base. It also made sure they slowed down enough not to smash through the top of the dam, as with each skip on the water they lost momentum. film here showing the "backspin"

    While golf balls also rotate in reverse when hit off a Tee, they are not designed to bounce before they land. So the direction of rotation provides extra life as the top surface of the spinning ball rotates away from the direction if travel creating low pressure, while the underneath of the ball produces high pressure as it rotates towards the wind. eg.

    There are plenty of videos on Youtube of model planes using this method to fly with rotating wings.
     
  13. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    rwatson Senior Member

    You are right, Skipping stones and barrel bombs have NOTHING top do with the OP's project. He would be better to do what Barnes Wallace did, and set up a big pond and play with models. But when you have a computer that draws pretty pictures, is easier to make things up.
     
  14. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
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    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Well first of all a menacing vehicle is a marketable vehicle. Second, most of this could be obscured by the deck and hull if any. Yes this would be a much more complicated drive scenario. The hurdle I'm trying to address with this design is hydrodynamics.

    I'm having a hard time progressing with the original model after dragging it through the water. I think the tapering the length of the trantoons in itself will be a huge improvement in hydrodynamics. Not to mention tapering the diameters should help transition from slow to skipping mode. That being said I am reinventing the design before I proceed with further modeling.
     

  15. Matthew Lee Towne
    Joined: May 2017
    Posts: 142
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    Location: Oviedo

    Matthew Lee Towne Senior Member

    Funny. But I will set my own design and testing parameters. I'm not posting here for that. I'm hoping that someone will take a serious look and save me a few testing iterations. Are you up to it?
     
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