Richard Woods Flica 34' plywood/epoxy Build

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by mariobrothers88, Dec 14, 2020.

  1. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    You don't use a gelcoat if painting.

    After you lay the wovens on, you may see some areas you don't like. You use a fairing compound on them and wovens get neat coated with plain epoxy at a rate of about 2 oz per yard. I like to use an adhesive roller for neat coating. Home Depot sells them, but I usually cut them down from 9" to more like about 4". Moc the epoxy in a gallon pail so it doesn't kick as fast. You will probably need to sand before neat coats, make sure to sand lightly to not burn thru!

    If you are careful, you need about 2-3 neat coats for the boat to start looking nice and the weave to vanish.

    Alternatively, you can put a fairing compound over the entire boat if you feel it is filling a bit, sand and then a neat coat or two. So much depends on your final finish wishes. If you are less concerned with final finish, I'd still neat coat to protect the glass.

    For paint, prep sand from 120-180 or as instructed if otherwise.

    You need primer for the perfection and I ised interlux 2000e on my bottom for a primer. I really like the interlux 2000e and wish I had used it for the entire boat. It flows out pretty nice with fine rollers.

    For your area, the primers will kick pretty fast, so you need to think through keeping a wet edge. My boat wraps all the way around and has no defined deck, but traction paint up top allowed for a wet edge at the gunwhale. I taped a line at the bow and started on one side and went all the way around. (Actually a bit on the top first that was taped off.
     
  2. mariobrothers88
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    mariobrothers88 Senior Member

    Thank you so much fallguy!

    When you say "neat coat" it's pretty much just a layer of plain epoxy correct? "Fill coat" and "neat coats" are pretty much the same thing right?

    Tha
     
  3. mariobrothers88
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    mariobrothers88 Senior Member

    Hey guys, after reading the Epoxy Basics ebook by Russell Brown, I'm still confused. I plan to put a layer of epoxy on the chine joint, then lay the biaxial fiberglass and wet it out with epoxy. Then do I need to do a fill coat, or can I just put the next strip of biaxial fiberglass? After the second strip, do I put a fill coat or lay the 10 oz plain weave glass over the entire hull and do the fill coat after all that?

    Thanks for all the help and input guys, I truly appreciate it!!
     
  4. mariobrothers88
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    mariobrothers88 Senior Member

    As I was putting the 10 oz plain weave fiberglass over the hull, there was an area that wouldn't take up epoxy completely and become clear (see photo below). I think in that area, I was getting towards the bottom of the cup of epoxy and the epoxy was starting to kick and become hard and wouldn't fill the weave of the fiberglass well. I tried adding more epoxy but it still wouldn't take it up and turn clear. Should I just grind out this area and replace the 10 oz fiberglass/epoxy?

    Thanks for all your help guys!!

     

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  5. Milehog
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    Milehog Clever Quip

    Maybe hit the cloth that didn't wet out with a heat gun and peel it off? Grinding-sanding green epoxy scares me.
     
  6. mariobrothers88
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    mariobrothers88 Senior Member

    Thanks for the reply milehog! What do you mean by "green" epoxy exactly and why does it scare you?

    Sorry for the newb questions!
     
  7. Milehog
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    Milehog Clever Quip

    Green epoxy is firm but not fully cured. besides gumming up sand paper it's dust is a health hazard. Cured epoxy is pretty much inert.
    Green epoxy is easy to cut. The bubble you posted earlier, if a manageable size, could possibly be cut out rather than sanded out before applying a patch. After cutting the bubble off I'd sand the substrate to give the epoxy tooth.
    I assumed you were going to grind the bubbles out right away upon discovery, possibly before the epoxy cured.

    Russel Brown's work is very neat, I have his books too. He has a series of videos over at Off Center Harbor but a subscription is required to view them.
     
  8. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Grind it out with 40 grit and remove all loose edges. Bond a new piece in and lightly sand the margin.

    I never do any sanding or grinding without gloves and an N95 mask. I got an epoxy dermatitus from degloving same way and just touching one spot on my wrist repeatedly.. I might have some allergy from all the work; not sure, but recently I have a cough now and then working on the boat. But it is outdoors, so could be pollen or molds.
     
  9. mariobrothers88
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    mariobrothers88 Senior Member

    Hey guys I have finished both hulls and finished with two gloss coats of epoxy. I was originally planning to prime the entire hull with interlux interprotect 2000e but I woefully miscalculated how much of the primer I need for my 34' hulls. I only have two gallons of the interlux 2000e and according to the specifications I need something like 16-20 gallons. At $115/gallon that comes out to $1840 - $2300. According to Russell browns rolling perfection book he says he never primes his wood/epoxy boats and just uses an epoxy gloss coat and he says thay as long as it's in good shape it should be sufficient to paint the bottom and top coats directly without priming.

    However I am planning to keep my boat in the water the entire year. It seems like priming is way more expensive than it should be am I miscalculating it? According to the literature it says to take the total surface area and divide by 60 to calculate the number of gallons I would need. Each hull is about 490 sqft so 490/60=8 gallons per hull.

    Any input would be greatly appreciated!
     
  10. Milehog
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    Milehog Clever Quip

    In my likely inaccurate understanding the primer is prone to absorb water. I have Russel's book and agree with his conclusion.
     
  11. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    You can use epoxy, but it tends to like to sag more. And even still, two coats of 2000e is really wise. Your boat is already epoxy, so you don't follow interlux 5 coat recommendation!

    It is not needed inside.

    I am not sure where you are getting your estimate; it seems high.

    To reduce coats, after fairing, spray the hull with a mist coat of spraypaint to final fair. It gets really hard to see the finish and a first coat of primer is often sacrificial. Once you are satisfied, sand with 120-180 or to Interlux spec.

    Two coats is all you will need, but the way I do it is three coats, sand and a final and sand at a lower grit. So, I am doing four. Recently, I sanded the helm riser after two and it looked great and I went immediately to topcoat. But two is sort of a minimum.

    A lot depends on color plans. If you paint a light cover over dark sharpie lines; they will show through. If you paint topcoat over epoxy and the epoxy has darkness under, it will take up to four coats of more expensive topcoats to finish brcause the epoxy did zero coloring.

    I recommend you buy about 6-10 gallons of the 2000e. Only paint what you can and don't mix and throw it away. See how well you do.

    Coverage is 200-240 sqft per gallon per coat or 100-120 sqft for two coats.

    How many sqft you painting?
    What colors are planned? Match primer and topcoats close!
     
  12. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    490/60 is for four coats; this is definitely not needed on the bottom of a well faired epoxy boat!
     
  13. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    I'd worst case plan for 3 coats, order 3 3 gallons kits plus the reactor for about say 10-11 gallons and see how you do.

    Paint is expensive. Interlux is a joy to work with and all I'd buy starting over.
     
  14. mariobrothers88
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    mariobrothers88 Senior Member

    Thanks fallguy! That makes sense yeah 5 coats seemed to be a bit much!!
     

  15. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Just keep in mind, they make this epoxy barrier coat for boats made with pe or ve. And so they want a minimum thickness.

    All you need is even coverage for the topcoat color and to be able to sand to a smooth finish for topcoating. If you are worried you are rough or pinholy, you can certainly neat coat, but that is also a lot of sanding and no color preparation for the topcoat. I used a gray primer for my cabin and painted it white and I had issues because sanding the primer to 180 for the topcoat kept me gray and so more topcoat was used which is also costly. You want the primer and topcoat colors closer. I thought I could get away with it and the topcoat was applied 2x and sanded and I had too much sandthru and had to 3x it, sand and final... 6 coats! And I still have 3 darker spots, but only I see them.

    If you used ve for the boat, then epoxy should be applied as precoats or use the directed amount to prevent osmotic blistering per them.
     
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