Revolutionary Portable Boat

Hi, Frosh

Your posts are always welcome.

(1) What you said are facts: the potencial market is not the effective one and the mainly targeted buyers can’t be estimated in advance because the market doesn’t exist yet. So, without any reference to rely on, I considered some details about Brazil and the vehicle.
Related to Brazil: (a) it has the lengthiest waterway network of the planet; (b) 90% of the energy here is provided by big hydroelectric dams, that provide big lakes; (c) its waterway and highway network have almost the same length. The cheapest means of transport on land is a bicycle - one with a popular price costs around $100. Its number of bikes is around 60 million; (d) 70% of its population lives less than 62 miles/100 km away from to the coast; (e) most of paddlers dont’t have their own kayak, they use the ones owned by clubs, federations, boat renters, etc; (g) its strong income concentration allows only 20% of the population to be able to buy spares goods.
Related to the vehicle: (i) it can be pedal, motor, paddle, oar propelled (and also wind, in the future), this might create new sport modalities; (ii) it can be an appeal as a rescue/security boat for owners of bigger boats, since it can be placed in small spaces and it´s easy to be assembled; (iii) it suits at anytime to one or more users, according to the needs (and budget) of the interested;

(2) Thanks for the advice.

(3) Regarding the performance of the small kayak (less than 3m long), maybe I didn’t explain it very well.
I meant to say that the performance of a short kayak (less than 3m long) is always inferior to the performance of a lengthier one with same displacement.

 

Poida,

What Vega said is true, because the vehicle aims to widen the range of users of personal watercrafts.
It can, for instance, be used with a motor, as an aquatic kart, it would be a new concept of use, even though this would require more expensive materials on its construction. If the front module has a pivoting directional system, this would even create a different and radical “drive”, a new sport! This directional system would also provide superior performance in kayak slalom and kayak polo.
It can be propelled by pedal, which would be a new sport concept. It is necessary high quality material for the construction of this model too.
In case of an inflatable model, since it has a beam, it has more structural resistance than its competitors.
And, finally, if I’m successfull I’ll also launch the sail version.
What did you want to say with "And Brazil looks like a place to party. Who needs a kayak to party?"
Do you believe in a party with people that don't have a place to live or anything to eat?

 

Paulo,
I know this might sound as if I'm petting the kid (the “thing”), but the difference in performance between the “thing” and a kayak of same dimensions is really very small. I insist that this should be tested, as I already suggested, to verify what I’m saying.
I’m not saying anyone in this forum should build this vehicle, but if someone with a shaper or boat building vocation gets interested in making it, it would be easy to make this comparison.

 

César,

You are talking about two different things:

One: a portable kayak that can be disassembled in different pieces, for transport, but remains a kayak with a normal or good performance.

Two: an inexpensive kayak that can also be disassembled for transport.

They have to be two different boats, because the first would inevitably cost more than a "normal" kayak and the second, the inexpensive one, would always have a poor performance, compared with a real kayak.
It was about this one that I was using the word "thing", not with a pejorative connotation, but to say that it was not in the same category as normal kayaks.

I believe that there is a market for each of these products (providing one has good performance and the other is cheap enough), but they are two completely different products and pointed to two completely different markets, to different people.

As it has already been said by Poida and Frosh, understanding the market is fundamental.

It seems to me that you should focus on one of those two products, improve it and adequate it to the market that you have defined as the potential target market.

 

They have to be two different boats, because the first would inevitably cost more than a "normal" kayak and the second, the inexpensive one, would always have a poor performance, compared with a real kayak.

Hi Cesar, This line posted by Vega is the most telling of the situation so far.
Your boat will inevitably be a me a "me too" product and have low volume sales (read: uneconomic) unless you can produce something that makes the quotation incorrect.
If inexpensive is the most important, and compact when folded is second most important, then the next most important will be to achieve a lot better than poor performance. To be successful in marketing you first need a point of difference to existing offerings, and to fill a perceived need or desire in your target market.
My personal view is that it might need an extra section to increase length in paddling and rowing versions to at least 3.3m and better 3.6m.
Next the assembled boat should have a continuous fair bottom over the whole length.
Can I make a comparison to bicycle helmets which are compulsory in Australia.
You once could buy polystyrene ones that were painted; very cheaply but they were seen as rubbish by most cyclists. Better helmets were still made of polystyrene but had a thin hard glossy plastic shell over the outside.
Although the foam was still the critical component such helmets are perceived as safer and much more desirable to own, as being seen wearing a painted foam one is an embarassment for most Australians.
The message from this I believe also translates to the boat concept. It desperately needs a hard glossy thin shell, possibly ABS plastic.
Psychologically people have to feel good about owning a leisure item, and even to feel a little envied by people watching who do not own one.
Sorry to hear that the standard of living for most people in Brazil is so low.
The media only shows places such as the beach at Rio, and other places that are full of tourists. Have you thought of leaving your country?

 

Paulo,
I think the “thing” is funny!
About all the rest you said, you’re absolutely right.

 

Frosh,

I agree with what you posted.

My problem is to produce it one way or the other. If there is anybody interested in partnership, I’ll produce the molds, makets and mock-up, I just haven’t been able until now to produce the money. I’ve been developing a portfolio page (in a slow pace because I’m lacking inspiration, I’m trying to solve this patent out) that could give an idea of what I can do. The page for the interested can be seen on http://www.ilustrossauro.pop.com.br

Regarding what you see about Brazil, just a few comments about the “backstage”.
The “happy” people of the carnival after the parade go back to their shanty in their shanty town (this reminds Cinderella when the chariot turns back into a pumpkin) and restart their monthly savings on the minimun wage (around $150) they gain (if they are employed) until next carnival so they can buy the costume with which they will parade on the following carnival. This is for the mass, the people you see pointed out on those huge parade cars are always celebrities, with gifted costumes either by the samba school or by sponsors. The “hot mulatas” (manytimes minors) usually “accompany” the rich tourists to sustain their families.
The healthy people you see on the beaches is the elite. The poor have no means of transport to those beaches and the people living in shanty towns is never shown to avoid “uglyfying” the news.
The above refers to the poor “rich” of big urban areas! The ones living in the rural area have no place to live, because there reigns the policy of large estates (sometimes bigger than some countries of Europe). Brazil is the biggest large estate of the world!
To give you a better idea of the income concentration: 50% of the GDP of Brazil is in the hand of 1% of the population and 29% of the GDP belongs to 20% of the population.

"Have you thought of leaving your country?" Of course, but no first world country wants a Brazilian (they’re not wrong), much less a poor one!

 

Sorry about having called it the "thing", but I do really believe that for marketing reasons, it should be better not to call it a kayak.

You have to find an attractive name. The "thing" in English may look funny, but if you call it " a Coisa" in Portuguese, it would look funny, but in a positive way, at least in Portugal.

About Brasil it is also true that the country has one of the biggest potential development and it is believed that in the mild of this century it will be a powerfully nation and the most developed of all south America.

I believe that in a country with so much potential, a creative guy will have a future. Just a question of having a good education and meet the right people.

About Brazilians and first world countries, you don’t have an idea of the number of Brazilians living and working in Portugal. My boat is out of the water, having its annual check up and the man in charge in the shipyard is a Brazilian (when he had arrived, 4 years ago, he didn’t know anything about boats, got a job, learned fast and got promoted fast). The two young fellows that have put the boat on a cradle were Brazilians and even one of the stars of the Portugal football team was born in Brazil (Deco), now a naturalized Portuguese citizen....and you can bet that he is popular among us (nice guy).

 

Vapera

Unfortunately in the UK we allow recreational activities such as floating off the beach to go on unhindered (despite screams of frustration from many concerned profesionals - coastguard, lifeboat crews, ships crews, etc) and allow just about anybody go drown themselves when and how they want! When they do all hell breaks loose in the press and everybody gets upset but nothing is done! until next time and...... you got it!

The style of rescue craft I envisigned with your "thing" see it has a name already! (it's also the name of the Iceland parlament but that's got nothing to do with it!) was for individual style rescue such as the above, but when you come to think of it how big is a shipwreck - if a "thing" sinks by running into something is this not a shipwreck? All relative really! As to the military "thing" one of the first "things" I mentioned was just such a use!

And don't worry about moving abroad - Portugal is not the only place for Brazilians, we also have a lot in this country especially in London, and theres some pretty good guys amongst them - hard workers too most of 'em. Of course Portugal is easier they already know the language but that's not stopped any of the guys I know - in fact the only country that doesn't bother to learn anybody elses language IS the English (wether thats to do with us being bone idle or our Pirate background is best left to such grand studiers of the English like Guillermo and Vega - I'm too busy thinking about my next plundering trip! Vega/Gilly lock up your wives and daughters AND your gold but especially your gold)

 

the concept of a smaller, compact, portable, disassembled craft has merit and not only in kayaks
the same it seems, is being done with catamarans

an early prototype

 

im412 now that's a "think"

Vapera I didn't know that Brazil was such a poor country, watching TV travel shows they promote a country with night clubs, coffee houses, beaches and of course parades.

Don't let anyone take your dream away from you, but to turn a dream into reality you have to face reality.

I have been designing a product fror 6 years now (can't say what it is as I believe in keeping such projects confidential) most of that time is formulating my marketing strategy.

In Western Australia we are importing tradesmen, so if you have a trade you should apply to migrate here. We have all the room in the world where you can build your "thing."

Perhaps we should suggest names for the new invention.

What about "Artiyak" Arti taken from the word articulate and of course yak from kayak.

Foldayak - for obvious reasons.

Compactayak

Backpackayak

and

Darlinghaveyouseenmybloodyyakathing

 

Paulo,

The “thing” ou “a coisa” aren’t really the names I thought for it, but it has been of good use in this forum, it fits quite well, but only in the forum.
It’s really not a kayak nor an aquatic kart nor a pedalayak nor a skiff, it’s in fact a mix of all that, so the name has to recall this concept, being short and easy.

The idea of Brazil as the country of the future is being mentioned for the last 500 years and it will problably be the country of the future in the next 500 years, unless we import an educational system from outside, from Portugal for example, because I’ve already read about it and I think it´s a very nice one.

Creativity here is only good for robbing and exploring the people.

Most of the people that you´ve mentioned are underemployed, problably without any rights, which, in my opinion, is not the best way to immigrate. Maybe someday I’ll make the inverted trip of my ancestors on “a coisa”.

 

Safewalrus,

The “thing” is funny, but the vehicle already has a name that I can’t reveal because it´s not being produced yet. The Brazilian parliament could also have that name, but with the most pejorative connotation!

As an individual rescue craft, I believe the best material for it would be styrofoam because it´s cheap and impossible to sink, even if it hits something. For this and other reasons I think it would be interesting to produce it in all the possible ways and modalities. I don’t mean to say that I’ll be the one to do it (I haven’t been able to capitalize for that!), but companies in several of the already mentioned segments could do it, because it would please all sides.

Most Brazilian living abroad are illegal immigrants and underworkers. If I don’t approve illegality here, I won’t want to be illegal in someone else’s “house”.

Regarding the piracy, it’s not nice to approach piracy in a jocose manner. Most of the countries of the present have a quite dirty past, I don’t think it’s interesting to talk about historical past, at least not in a forum of ideas intended to improve the world.

 

Poida,

The correct term for this country is not poor, it is unfair. Until the previous president gave the national assets to foreign companies (in 2000), the Brazilian GDP was the fifth of the world, now it´s the 13th. So Brazil’s problem is not wealthiness, but the controlling elite.

If Australia sponsors my invention, I’ll go, because my problem at the present moment is the capital to produce it.

Concerning the last name you suggested, what’s the reason for the “bloody”? Was darling in one of “those days”?

 

César,
Jefferson is a Brasilian and the man in charge of the shipyard where my boat is. That shipyard besides boat maintenance also builds fiberglass boats for the fishermen, so he has experience with composite materials. I have talked with him about your project and I have mentioned the Frosh idea of utilizing polystyrene with a hard glossy plastic shell over the outside.

He is interested, and you can talk with him, but not here because he doesn't speak English. His email : GuittiGuitti@hotmail.com

But, even if I find your idea interesting, what you have are 3D drawings and not a proper project. Talk with him and start working in ONE project that can be feasible and maybe Jefferson is one of the "right people".

I like Jefferson, maybe you like him too.