quick question about bondo

vkrue,,,,,more power to ya ,,,,,great attitude,,,longliner

 

Your friend is not dealing from a full deck. Marinizing an engine is not particularly easy. Lets just start with new valves, lifters, different cam, bore and stroke, enlarging the cooling passages, adding marine manifolds, an new marine carburetor.

If you are building a real go fast (go to Hot Boat Magazines web site http://www.hotboat.net/ or go to a magazine store and by Hot Boat) then it really gets expensive. You can't just drop it in the boat and expect it to work right. Marine engines run under totally different conditions than autos. You have to think about how you are going to cool it. Is it going to use raw water from the lake or sea, or are you going to have a heat exchanger and a closed cooling system. How are you going to get the power of the engine the prop. Is this going to be a straight inboard, a sterndrive, a v-drive, what? and you need a transmission, but not anything like the transmission in your car. It's really a reduction gear. and the beat goes on. Go to the library. Study. Look at Plans. Look at the Glen L kits. Not to buy one but just to see how they are put together. http://www.glen-l.com/

Plenty of people have built boats, but they did their homework first.

By the way buying a hull and completeing it is a good way to go. It will definitely be "your" boat when you get done with it. You will have touched everything in the boat, and put it all together yourself. It will also save you a lot of hassles. Building a hull is not a simple thing unless you're building a scow or a barge. What you have in mind is fairly complex. It's not impossible but it's a lot easier if someone else builds the hull. Just consider it a component that you are buying, like an engine or fuel tanks.

 

Not that I have built a boat from scratch before,
but again, I shall have to agree with VKRUE.

Just becuase you bought the boat for restoration rather than built from scratch, doesn't seem to eat very far into the "I did this all myself!" feeling.

The thing is, you can buy a big good boat of the size and kind you want, that has firstly been designed properly, and secondly built properly, and thirdly desperatly needs repair- and then rebuild the thing yourself.. (as long as the original design and construction was good, then this means if you rebuild it right, then it will be good too- as opposed to a boat you design and build yourself which could develop crucial problems right from the get-go).
That is, I would say for starters go out and buy one of those 'Project boats' out there, there are so many of them, being sold because they have been sitting in the sheds or back yards of guys who did not have the time, perseverence, dedication, money or help that you seem to- the wife has probably told them that this winter coming- if you haven't finished then it is gone! and thus they are also mostly very cheap.
Just this process of rebuilding, rather than building, will teach you so much, and will take you over every square inch of the boat. Depending on the condition of the hull or boat that you buy, you will most probably end up practically rebuilding this thing "from the ground up" andyway. Then, after this, you would be in a much better position to design and build a boat from scratch.

But..
You seem to know what you want.
So whatever you decide good luck.
and keep in touch.

 

Where in ontario do you live? I just outside toronto. I may be able to help you out. I have built Glen L kits also glass boats.

 

ya know, finding a junker might not be that bad of an idea. you guys are right. but i know it will take me forever to find one thats just right. i am starting to draw out exactly what i want. is it possible to modify the hull shape.

i live in sudbury

 

yhis is what i mean

 

Is it possible?
I gotta boldly lash out and say yes.

something as simple as a jigsaw should get you started, and then a little caprpentry and fix-it skills.
That is providing the original design is suited to that sort of modification.


But really, what do you mean?
with that very simple stick boat drawing, you seem to be saying, cut out the transom and poop deck (of a rather odd looking boat), and rebuild a new angled transom and cutaway stern. There might be better words for what I have attempted to describe...
As a matter of fact, I am sure that you probably possess some of these words, so-
Maybe you should describe what you mean.
This is pretty confusing.
I am assuming that by 'junker' you mean a boat in desperate disrepair?- not a 'junk boat'?

But I am late, and it is drunk, so forgive me you will have to.

I think you a getting onto the right line, for the moment.

If you have some sort of end plan that you want to come out with, as it seems you do, then say what it is. Be as descriptive and detailed as you can be.
then the people that are in the know will most probably offer you advice on what sort, model, desigin of boat would best suit the sort of project learning curve transformation and creation that you seem to be develping in your mind.

Good luck.

 

I know of a few Junk boats that you can purchase for FREE. You will have to replace the transom and floors and interior but the hulls are in good shape. Its alot of work building a boat from scratch and the reale value is very poor and hard to insure.

 

hansp

what you said is what i want to do. im a little concerned about strength. to me it seems like everything hull related is glued. why not screw and glue the damn thing to the frame pieces (bulkhead?). im sure stainless or even galvanized screws would last the test of time. how would you extend a hull?
would you simply put a piece of 1/2'' plywood behind.

jimslade

sounds good. where are you? im in northern ontario. if you have any pictures you can send them to colinroberts@sympatico.ca. if no pictures, how long and what year?

thanks again all.

 

jimslade. i just remembered you said you were in toronto. im probably heading down there next week for a few days

 

Inthegarage,
I am no expert, but as far as I know
in general boatbuliding screws and glue are good, and seems to be mostly used, along with glue and nails. As far as just hulls are concerned I am not too sure.

Galvanized, I think, is a definite no-no.
The general consensus on this site seems to be stainless (316) above the waterline, and silcon bronze, monel, or even titanium below. But this is a generalization, and I am still not particularly sure of what you want to do.
If you detail your plans or ideas a bit more, then someone should be able to recomend something.
What you use will probably be determined also by what has already been used in the boat that you will buy. (for me this is a little hard as everything in my boat was monel, and that I really can't afford, so I have gone with 316 stainless screws and bolts and silacon bronze toothed nails)
This will be similar for your plans of extending a hull, you would be using the same width ply that has been used (On my 30 ft Van De Stadt the hull is 1"). You would also have to do some considerable structure work- and would most probably be far from just simply putting a piece of ply behind.
Also, something like extending a hull would change the performance and handling of your boat from what it was originally designed for. This could work, or maybe not, but either way do your research and talk to some boat builders and designers about your plans.
Here would probably be a good place to start.

If like me you are not completly up with all the lingo, then maybe you should find a few images of boats that you would like to buy, and boats that have the features that you would like to modify it to, then post them for advice..

Hans.

 

it took me 6 yrs to find my boat..I didnt want asmall fix prodject ,I wanted a seagoing craft , hard to find in ohio...actually my wife found it , now she cant gripe about it.

 

Fasteners...

Hey guys, I'm back... been working on my neighbors 21' I.M.P.

Inthegarage:

I have to agree with Hans, no stainless (except above the waterline) & definitly no galvanized. No drywall screws either (Like someone else I know).

This is what everybody has been trying to get you to understand... Your knowledge as a "tradesman" is of limited use here dealing with boats.

Boats and watercraft deal with an entirely different kind of engineering.

You said that you are a "TRADESMAN".
Then you said that you are concerend about strength !

These and other statements you have made (plexiglass, 1/8'' plywood, BONDO , big power - go fast) (as well as your drawing) do not indicate this.

However, your statements do indicate that you have an "extremely" lacking understanding or comprehension of what it takes to build a boat.

I'm not trying to ridicule you. Not at all, just trying to help you understand that in this world of boats, you have soooooooooooooooo much to learn.

EXAMPLE:
My boat, that I am restoring, (my first and it was built in 1960), is 17' long.
It is wooden.
The transom is 2" thick.
The hull is 3/8" plywood.
The keel is 1 and 7/8" tall and the same wide.
ONE AND SEVEN EIGHTHS OF AN INCH thick and wide !!!

The keel is also made up of 3 or 4 separate sections attached end for end.

This is what the basic structure is composed of... doesn't seem like much.

After cutting a 40" long hole in the hull, just below the bow, exposing the keel on both sides (to examine it for water damage) and seeing exactly what and how this boat was made of, I was absolutely amazed that this thing could handle the stress' that a boat has to endure. Like cruising across the open water around 35 mph and slamming straight into a 3 or 4' wake without snaping the hull in half. The bow has to be taking on a tremendous amount of pressure at the point of contact with such a wake......

What I have determined, (through careful examination), is that it's not how beefy the construction is but rather.... the engineering !!! :idea:
The engineering is so precise. The boat is literily held together by sheer design

This is what you still do not have any clue about.

I do not want to discourage you from trying to build a boat. Only wish that you would listen to everyone a little bit more carefully. O.K. - a lot more carefully.

You can build yourself a mud bogger or a dragster or what ever. Most people can build a great many different things in their garage and maybe it will work and maybe it won't. If it breaks we just need to make it stronger, heavier, whatever. With a watercraft, it's all about the engineering and precision of the craftsman.

EXAMPLE:
Here in central illinois there once was a university proffesor that got the brilliant idea to build himself a boat... And he did... A 30 some footer...
He did this in his backyard... It took him around 10 years or so...
A university proffesor !!!
Now, you would think that a man of that caliber would have the intilect to think of everything, do his research, plan carefully and so on...
It's still in his backyard It's too big. Guess he forgot to plan for the day that he finished the boat and tried to get it to the water... Whatever, he can't get the thing out of his backyard without some serious modifications to his house, landscape and / or neighborhood !!!

ANOTHER EXAMPLE:
At sometime in my studies (preparing to repair my boat) I ran across a picture of several men around a large fire. They were experienced boat builders. They were burning ALL of the ribs that they had been cutting for the boat that they were in the process of building.
They made the ribs WRONG.

They were experienced boat builders. How much did their mistake cost $$$

Can you afford this kind of mistake..............................???
What ever you choose to do, build up from another hull or build from scratch, you will make mistakes.

I would rather make my mistakes and experience my learning curve on something simpler and less costly. The boat that I'm presently working on just happens to be the biggest project that I've ever tackled.
I have learned a great deal. And anticipate learning soooooooo much more.

Luckily, I only screwed up one Patch Board during my hull repairs. It took and entire day for me to draw, trace, cut and shape each gusset (two total) and Patch Board ( also two of these). Each piece had to be rough cut, dry fitted, trimmed, dry fitted, trimmed some more, dry fitted and so one and so on.... and entire day for each individual piece.
That one piece of 3/8" plywood was about 40 inches long and 8 inches wide. That piece of plywood that I had cost $ 106.00 U.S. for a 4' x 8' sheet. Luckily, I had plenty with that one sheet and even had half of it left over. Careful planning and even more care in the making of the parts as to not waste anything.

Oh, and then there's the tools.................... Yea, TOOLS!

I'm sure that your going to have to acquire a good many tools of one kind or another............... I did.
And I had a boat load of tools to begin with......................



READ, READ, READ.
A couple of good books to give you a start might be the following:
Wooden Boat Renovation by: Jim Trefethen
Frame, Stem & Keel Repair by: Wooden Boat Magazine Series
Wooden Boat Magazine

Again,
Best of luck
P.S.
How long has it taken me to type this message up for you. And all of the other replies you've recieved... why do we bother ?
Because we obviously care....

Build your boat, by all means, build it. Just give us all the benifit of the doubt that we are not under - estimating you so much as we know that you are under - estimating that which you think you want to do...

VKRUE

 

Extending The Hull

Inthegarage:

Hey, I'm back again... It was getting late last night... had to quit and go to bed.

To lengthen the hull means to completely change EVERYTHING about the boat. I'm not sure what all of the terms would be but there are many threads floating around here that would give you a clue if you were reading and paying attention.
One such point is the boat's CG. CG is Center of Gravity. This would be drastically changed. Its BOYOUNCY would aslo be affected. To lengthen the hull might mean that one would have to rip out the entire deck and change it's height and / or pitch to re-acquire the proper CG and / or boyouncy if it could be acquired.
The SHEER LINE is probably going to change as a result of this kind of modification. And on and on and on.

Your not alone in these ideas though. I, too, once thought about changing my boats length (later down the road) to add an inboard (I have a good 292 inline 6) but, there again, through reading the many different threads in this forum I now understand that it would cost too much to modify that engine over to MARINE and too many things about the boat itself would invariably be changed as well. Am happy to just fix it up with some simple mod's (new steering, full guage package, new seating & cushens and so on... ) and not change the boat structurally. Oh, it could be done... my dad taught me that if you can imagine it, you can do it. Anything can be done ! Structural modifications get really deep though. As I previously mentioned, a boats structural integrity derives from it's engineering and precision craftsmanship not necessarily how thick or heavy something is.

Later on down the road, I plan to expand my boating adventure to a larger scale (a bigger boat) but for now I have plenty to learn with this one.
My hull cost me $400.00 U.S. and the 115 hp outboard cost me another $400.00. So, I haven't spent too much money getting started.

I hope that I have shed some really bright light your way.

VKRUE

 

Junk Boats

:!: You might be careful using the term junk boat. I'm not sure as yet just exactly what a JUNK BOAT is yet but, it is a particular kind of craft and some people may be offended buy misuse of the term... No biggie !

VKRUE