question re-sail trim

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Charlyipad, Oct 8, 2015.

  1. Charlyipad
    Joined: May 2014
    Posts: 226
    Likes: 10, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 57
    Location: St Simons is ga

    Charlyipad Senior Member

    Notice the wrinkles angling away from the each batten at the luff. I tried cranking down on the luff tension, but still had this. Could the batten tension be too tight? Any suggestions? Thanks.

    Attached Files:

  2. gggGuest
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 840
    Likes: 29, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 76
    Location: UK

    gggGuest ...

    Loads of luff tension willl flatten them eventually, but you'll probably get a better shape like they are. Google "speed wrinkles".
  3. Richard Woods
    Joined: Jun 2006
    Posts: 2,209
    Likes: 171, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1244
    Location: Back full time in the UK

    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    If the batten tension is too tight you won't be able to tack the mainsail in light winds. Remember the handkerchief. Pull it by two corners and you get a crease. The only way to remove it is to pull the other two corners. So you need to tension the sail at rightangles to the creases

    And it looks like you need lots more luff tension. A 4:1 purchase led to a winch would be an appropriate way to get tension. Don't rely on just the mainhalyard as that just tensions the top part of the sail (due to friction caused by the battens)

    Maybe more prebend?

    What does your sail maker say?

    Richard Woods
  4. Oleboynow

    Oleboynow Previous Member

    notice how they progressively get worse
    I think it is in the cut
    Suggest, take the battens out one at a time, and see what happens, also it may well be that they are too heavy
    I know as a 13 year old kid, we had wood battens and each one was thinned near the luff, good luck
  5. Charlyipad
    Joined: May 2014
    Posts: 226
    Likes: 10, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 57
    Location: St Simons is ga

    Charlyipad Senior Member

    Thanks to all.

    Next time out I think I will try more outhaul tension (not quite a right angle but..)

    the second batten from the top tends to hold its shape when luffing in light air but will pop into place when the sail draws,

    the mast did have a bit more pre-bend when the sails were cut. When I was messing around with it when I got it home I think I may have taken some out. Pre- bend scares me. So probably i erred on the side of caution. Maybe I will put a little more back. thats probably it.

    Halyard tension scares me too I cranked on it pretty good though. I was afraid i might be jamming the headboard into the sheave up there, but I can't tell.
  6. Oleboynow

    Oleboynow Previous Member

    Charley, prebend will not hurt but outhaul will not fix it, try loosening the foot, least you have a boat, been shipless for 1 years now and even then it was just skippering owners boats
  7. groper
    Joined: Jun 2011
    Posts: 2,467
    Likes: 123, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 693
    Location: australia

    groper Senior Member

    do you have a 2:1 halyard? If not, consider changing to one... Otherwise, you could install a 4:1 Cunningham at the bottom. On my last cat, i had 2:1 main halyard and let that 2 a 43 size winch. On slow speed i had to crank it pretty hard... More outhaul tension would probably make it worse from the looks of it ...
  8. waikikin
    Joined: Jan 2006
    Posts: 2,390
    Likes: 153, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 871
    Location: Australia

    waikikin Senior Member

    Actually looks ok to me
    Don't be scared of a little prebend, it actually calms the rig & will not occilate/wiggle around so much.
    I'd be rigging a cunningham up to that first reef point on the luff & try some tension from below... if you give too much tension to the luff it will start to flatten/invert the curvature in the front of the sail.
    Your outhaul is the primary camber control, your sailmaker should have supplied battens that are correct & tapered..
    Looks like you only have one telltale & maybe? one leech tape, really it's pretty hard to see what flow/air is doing.. it's seethrough... so some more telltales & tapes , about four sets over the height will you set twist, traveller & mainsheet tension adjustments...
    If you have the length in the mains topping lift I'd run it forward & under the reefing horn when not using it.... just gets it out of the way & if you need to reef or drop the main/whatever you'll be up at the mast to reset it anyway.

    Other than that I'd just not worry too much, enjoy & sail the cloth...

  9. Charlyipad
    Joined: May 2014
    Posts: 226
    Likes: 10, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 57
    Location: St Simons is ga

    Charlyipad Senior Member

    thanks guys, this is the kind of feedback I really need... there is no one around where I live to bounce this kind of stuff off of.

    Its time for me to start speeding up (after a year in the water, lol)
    A big hunter passed me the other day on a close reach and it was REAL embarrassing while I was un-hockling the sheet and fiddling with the outhaul...

    The little things add up, I know. I haven't had the time or ability to experiment with the rudder trim while underway (another subject)
  10. Eric Sponberg
    Joined: Dec 2001
    Posts: 2,010
    Likes: 215, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 2917
    Location: On board Corroboree

    Eric Sponberg Senior Member

    If the sail is more than a few years old, it could be stretched out, and there is not much you can do about that short of a recut. And if you are going to do a recut, it is almost more economical to just buy a new sail, and keep this one as a reserve.

  11. philSweet
    Joined: May 2008
    Posts: 2,487
    Likes: 280, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1082
    Location: Beaufort, SC and H'ville, NC

    philSweet Senior Member

    It looks like very light conditions on a beam reach. Other than that, it is really hard to tell due to the wacky photo angle.

    Yes, that would be my step #1.

    I would also try to back way off on the out haul and bring it in a little at a time. It looks like too much leach tension low down. Less outhaul and more lower batten bend might help some.
  12. Charlyipad
    Joined: May 2014
    Posts: 226
    Likes: 10, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 57
    Location: St Simons is ga

    Charlyipad Senior Member

    Well the sailmaker says to try tensioning the battens first, and if that doesn't help, then try more luff tension. That makes sense now, looking at it again, the tighter battens up high don't have wrinkles.
    I think I will also put back a little more bend in the mast. I don't know how to measure the tension, I guess I will just eyeball the curve. Those battens were a real b*tch to load in there, I hope I didn't cut them too short...
  13. Oleboynow

    Oleboynow Previous Member

    well we are all agreed on outhaul, foot tension and I did say load the battens
    I loaded the pic and rotated it
    Sail show no signs of age and that is abt it, good luck IMO prebend will worsen it
  14. Charlyipad
    Joined: May 2014
    Posts: 226
    Likes: 10, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 57
    Location: St Simons is ga

    Charlyipad Senior Member

    That wiggling kind of freaks me out too. When it blows 20 or more the thing wiggles pretty good at the dock. How do you measure wiggle? It doesnt play a tune or anything but you can feel it all right. I suppose some is normal, but how much is too much? How do you tell? Maybe a big bungee around the shrouds to the mast would be good? Anybody else do that?

  15. SukiSolo
    Joined: Dec 2012
    Posts: 1,270
    Likes: 25, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 271
    Location: Hampshire UK

    SukiSolo Senior Member

    On small racing monohulls with full length batten rigs, the trend has been very powerful Cunningham controls. 8:1 is not uncommon and this alone can prebend the mast. In 20 Kn of wind I'd use quite a bit, it defintely flattens the entry and holds the chord in reasonable place. It's not just the kicker (vang) or sheet that can induce bend.

    As per others, sometimes you just have to reset the batten tension slightly, though a few light creases (as photo) would not bother me.

    Just takes a little 'playing' with to get used to how much Cunningham that patricular sail likes in whatever wind strength you have. Sure you will find a setting that works for you.
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.