Quant 28-foil assist keelboat / DSS

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Jun 10, 2011.

  1. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    Can you explain why your boat is not in the class with the fastest boats? I would have expected it to be classed with the other extreme types.
     
  2. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Quant 28 "Allianz Suisse"-BOL D'OR 2012

    1st in Class, 7th mono overall: (That means 7th out of 287 monohulls!)

    Geneva-Rolle-Geneva was a very good race for us (see racereport in this thread, Post # 44-dl). So far so good. But everybody wanted to see, how the „Allianz“ Q28-Team would end in the big race – the 74th Bol d’Or - and the expecations were quite high. Is this boat and its performance showing during Geneva-Rolle-Geneva just a mayfly, or is it really able to keep up with much bigger boats over a longer race?

    The pressure was on us: Another good result would help to promote the new Q30 and shut some more skeptical voices. Forecast for the raceday was quite optimistic, with westerly breeze up to 20kts. This means a very fast downwind to Evian, then some more or less chaotic hours and then westerly breeze again. I didn’t believe in this forecast – there wasn’t an explanation where this wind should come from and if - then later in the day and not around starting time. I learnt to be half right and half wrong
    .....more(see pdf below)
     

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  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Quant 28 Allianz Suisse-Sat. June 23, 2012

    From Michi:
    "Saturday we sailed the quasi Bol d'Or of the lake of Zurich. Distance is very similar to Geneva-Rolle-Geneva. We won also this race."
    Thats pretty damn cool-congratulations, Michi! More absolute proof(if any was needed) of the viability of a DSS equipped boat designed from scratch with all the advantages DSS confers on a raceboat design. Great news!
     
  4. quant28
    Joined: Jun 2012
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    Location: Zurich

    quant28 Junior Member

    Referring to your question:
    Normally the race comitee is telling you in what class you have to sail, as long as the current rating system is able to rate your boat. if not, you sail automatically in the open class (only sailed time, no corrected) which is the biggest.
    But:
    As i said before, lakesailing is different from sailing on more open waters.
    Size counts in over 80% of the time. it doesn't count much (but it still counts) when we are able to go on the foil, like we did on the race before.

    Size of rig: the taller your mast the more power you get in the light

    Boatlength: long waterline helps during the periods you are sailing in the displacement mode and thats more than 80% of the time. If you have to sail upwind in about 8kts we cannot compete with our 8.5m boat against a 14.20m boat. That should be clear for everybody. Hullspeed still is something that counts. also surface of water: what already is a chop for us isn't for a much longer boat. ok?

    The biggest boats in the LX class are around 40' and more to 47' max. (more is not allowed) and even in our class (TCF1) we are already the smallest or one of the smallest boat.

    Example from the last bol d'Or:Swiss Interim, the older FullPelt is one of the faster and bigger boats. they passed us during the night, around 30m on leeward. they got some breeze with their tall rig we just couldn't get. in the end they put almost 2 hours on us.

    But in a way we are competing with the biggest boats as i mentioned in my racereport that 7th over all for me counts more than 1st in the class.

    so maybe you have to know why we did the Q28 Project: our goal was to develop the fastest sportsboat for lakes below 10m. So the comparison with boats of 14m and more is of no importance to me. For me it is obvious that you won't win the monohull division of the bol d'or ever - or at least it is very unlikely.
     
  5. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

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    Last edited: Jul 11, 2012
  6. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Quant 28 Bol D'OR 2012

    From the Daily Sail: ( full article--http://www.thedailysail.com/node/62358 )

    "The Bol d'Or Mirabaud set sail on Lake Geneva on Saturday at 1000 with, as usual, the most diverse fleet of lake racers. The race got underway in zero wind, although some boats seemed to have the uncanny ability to make headway in a millpond, most notably Luis Sanjuan and his crew on the M2 catamaran KSR and Michael Aeppli on the Dynamic Stability Systems Quant 28 Allianz Suisse. "

    click:
     

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    Last edited: Jul 16, 2012
  7. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Quant 28

    Here is a pdf recounting the latest race(July 14) :
     

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  8. sean9c
    Joined: Jan 2011
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    sean9c Senior Member

    I'm guessing when he says that the Q30 will have 2 foils out he means they won't be tacking the DSS board. I wonder if it'll be fixed sticking out both sides
     
  9. CutOnce

    CutOnce Previous Member

    Be fun going through moorings with twice the boat width required!

    --
    CutOnce
     
  10. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ----------------------
    The Quant 30 boards are similar to a centerboard in that they can retract independently. See the pdf below:
     

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  11. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ==========================
    Thats the beauty of the system: there is no need to do that....
     
  12. quant28
    Joined: Jun 2012
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    quant28 Junior Member

    beam of Q30

    ...in fact beam of the Q30 will be below 2m, as the foils are fully retractable (to a tiny little rest of triangle > see pdf) and the racks can be folded up.
    you are right beam always is an issue here on the lakes as berths, moorings and harbours are narrow, never enough space...
     
  13. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Quant 28 DSS-another win!

    From the Quant 28 site:

    The race of 15th September

    Another light wind race over 15nm. It was quite difficult to find the way and it was long and exhausting for the one driving.
    Interesting in this race was the opportunity to really sail the flying headsail upwind for a longer period. We learned a lot how to use this sail and also about its range (..when to change back on the basic jib etc.) and how to sail upwind really. The first half to the first mark was a pure upwind course, then a short leg under kite before the whole windsystem turned to west, with the consequence to sail another upwind beat to the finishing line. We were first boat home again - but it was quite hard work.


    Congratulations, Michi and Team!

    click--
     

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  14. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Quant 28

    from the website:

    September 22nd: Last race of season won and also annual championship
    The race from saturday was a very nice one although weather was ugly. Once again it was a pure up and down course - to be precise - a triangle course, like in older days. Wind was at the middle level the Q28 is designed for: 6 to 8kts.

    Almost perfect take off from the line and then upwind to the first mark. It was very interesting to compare speed and angel with competitors as the conditions were the same for everybody and of course the conditions worked not only in our direction, as not only the Q28, but also all the other modern all purpose lakeboats have there best moments sailing upwind in 8kts. European sailors know the Esse 850 for example as the benchmark for 8.5m Sportsboat and it is a fact that this boat upwind goes amazingly well although it is quite heavy. But experienced lake sailors know: Weight may not be a killing aspect in any case, when sailing upwind in flat water and decent conditions - although this fact is denied in discussions again and again.

    Back to the race: There were several Esse yachts around and also X-35 etc. and everybody sailed a long leg in constant conditions after leaving the line. Shifts not clear enough to take advantages by tacking. We constantly did between 6.8 to 7.5 kts same angle as all the faster boats. After some minutes the difference was already surprisingly clear and we rounded the mark after maybe 25 Minutes way in front with second boat at least 5 Minutes behind.
    Conclusion for upwind course: There is an obvious and substantial "generation-gap" between a boat like the Q28 and the traditional comparable sized boats.

    Downwind of course is different stuff - weight is crucial in any type of conditions and wave pattern. Down to the mark forming the triangle, it was pure downwind. We got there after three jibes leaving the fleet more and more. After this mark first it seemed to be close reaching back to the finishing line. But to my surprise we could leave the A1 kite up and in the best moments we did over 12kts on the foil (one crew less at this stage of the race speed probably would have gone up to 14kts). Competitors got lost in the mist and we had to sail the same triangle another time.

    During a heavier rain shower we got stuck in hole while the rest of the fleet was able to catch up. But breeze came back after a while and we crossed the line after 112 minutes of sailing, still 18 minutes in front of the second boat.

    All in all a good season: Regional championship won with 419 points (second boat scored 299 points). In 7 out of 8 races, we were first boat over all and in all 8 races we won in the racing division. Together with the results we achieved during the Geneva races this year, the statement may be indicated: "Mission accomplished"


    Check out this picture-it clearly shows the whole boat being lifted by the foil.
    Caption on the website for this photo:
    Glowing fully on the foil on the Quant28: Constantly doing 15 to 17kts in 12 to 13kts true, just sitting on the racks doing nothing but enjoying an experience you never knew before on a monohull--
     

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  15. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Quant 28 summary

    From a brochure on the Quant 28-soon to be superceded by the Quant 30:

    «Yes, it is a Revolution»

    Quant28 is a lake racer and daysailor for demanding yachtsmen and -women who always wanted a sailable, high-performance boat and delight in true innovation - but at the same time not willing to train acrobatic sailing skills. Comparison with a Skiff maybe optical but trapezes you won’t find on the Q28.
    Although the Q28 with DSS belongs to the «Foiler-Generation» it more behaves like an advanced modern Sportboat. Sure that she may be a bit more demanding then common european Sportsboats in the size of 26foot plus. Little weight and slim, almost skinny lines are the base and reason for the sensitive, lively and very interesting character of this unique yacht. You never will be bored sailing this boat – you are still on the move when others park. Stability on the other hand is much better as the technical specifications may tell you. For an experienced crew choosing the appropriate set of sails, she is comparably easy to handle - even in harsh conditions.
    Different to foilers we know today, the range of use the Q28 offers, is wide: Racing fully crewed up, sailing with friends during leisure time, going out after work but also just sailing for fun. Enjoy high speed sailing on the foil in decent and pleasant conditions nobody has to be afraid of – and all this even shorthanded.
    ---
    THE QUANT28 IS TWO BOATS IN ONE:
    Boat 1 with retracted foils is very slender, very light, and has plenty of sail surface for light to medium winds. The foil eliminates 60% of the keel ballast. This makes the Q28 extremely fast for its length. Close- hauled and running: The superior, lively boat for lakes and coastal area.
    Boat 2 with extended foils provides multi-hull feeling from a speed of 9 kts and up. In extreme cases, the foil that rights and lifts the boat allows it to sail nearly 100% faster than comparable conventional boats.
    Conclusion: In boat 1, the foil acts indirectly as a “stability insurance” in case the wind strengthens. In boat 2, it acts directly as an “afterburner”.
    DSS is the reason for this specific behaviour and it makes the Q28 a fast boat in many ways. It is the ultimate explanation why she is determined to be a superior Lakeracer in a vast variety of weather conditions.
    You will win line honours in the light but as well in higher windspeeds. Her superiority is well-proven since she started her first race. During the last two seasons sailing on the Swisslakes and especially taking part in the big events in Geneva, she was able to beat not only her natural Sportsboat-Rivals but also much taller yachts.
    The Quant28 is a raceboat but as well a daysailing fun-boat for speed enthusiasts with the wish to combine performance with relative simplicity. Who ever experienced sailing her in decent force 4 under kite going steadily between 17 and 19kts will be bored on anything similar without a foil in the future. So take care – you will end as a Quant-Addict in no time.

    Please also go to:
    www.quant-boats.com
    www.dynamicstabilitysystems.com
    www.infinitiyachts.com
    =================================
    Season 2011 and 2012: Silver mine called Q28!

    Fastest yacht of the pack in her first race - «T-Derby», Lucerne, Mai 2011 (53 boats participating)

    Winner of the annual regional championship on lake of Zurich 2011 with the minimal number of saled races. (5 best races out of 9) 4 victories out 5 races. 4 time fastest monohull over all (65 to 155 boats participating each race)

    Geneva – Rolle – Geneva 2011: 2nd boat in the class, elapsed and corrected time, 9th Monohull out of 180 participants.

    Winner of the annual regional championship on lake of Zurich 2012 with record number of points gathered. 8 races sailed in the racing division, 8 races won (also all time record). 7 times out of 8 races fastest monohull over all (65 to 155 boats participating each race)

    Geneva – Rolle – Geneva 2012: 1st boat home in the class as well as victory after corrected time. 8th monohull of 200 – crossing the line 9 seconds after the tallest Libera A (47’) of lake of Geneva after 6 hours and 30 minutes of total sailing time.

    Bol d’Or 2012: Line honours in Class TCF 1. 7th monohull of 430 – crossing the line 3 minutes behind «Taillevent II» a 47’ AC cupper like yacht after total sailing time of over 21 hours.
    Also go to: http://www.thedailysail.com/inshore/12/62358/0/bol-dor-mirabaud-start-photo-gallery
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2012
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