Power boat design for economy.

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Frosty, Apr 11, 2011.

  1. MrHysucat
    Joined: Apr 2012
    Posts: 22
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    Location: Cape L' Agulhas/South Africa

    MrHysucat Hysucat Evangelist

    The whole world needs a Hysucat. lol
     
  2. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member


    No not if you want a nice to Toyota and some one tries to sell you a land rover.

    Is that the Mr Hysucat of SA that old me my cat was not suitable for a Hysocat foil ?

    Designers get up my **** with all their we know whats best crap and covering themselves with contracts to make sure they don't get sued for a crappy design before they have even built it.

    You know the ones that have never done it that way before so condescend and say _-Oh no sir you cant do that --trust me I know better.

    There is an economical power boat, its called a light weight one.

    I remember the day the guy started my interior fit out on my cat, he walked in with a 1/2 inch sheet of ply for the Tv station.

    It was his last day. The entire boat was fitted with 3 mm teak faced ply. he said it was impossible.

    Now if I was in charge of the entire build!!
     
  3. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Efficient powerboats do exist and can be designed in both mono and multi configurations. There's not many to choose from simply because powerboats, are market driven and most interested in a 50 powerboat don't ask about the efficiency, just how many wet bars on the weather decks.

    This doesn't mean you can't have one, but it does mean, because you're outside the market nitches, you'll need a custom design. It also means you'll likely need to live with, the accommodations of a 30'er in a 50' hull. This will provide 10 MPH cruising speeds, while sipping fuel like a bird and maybe a top speed in the low to mid teens.

    The sad reality is this, the 50' powerboat market is driven by people that can afford 50' yachts. This simply means that the cost of operation, is just an accepted part of the ownership equation. In fact, the fuel bill isn't likely a major portion of the annual ownership costs, considering how often a 50' pleasure power yacht is used annually in this country. So, it's hard to justify a long, efficient, elbow room lacking design when it doesn't make that much of an impact on the actual costs associated with having a 50'er parked at a handy slip.
     
  4. eyschulman
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    Location: seattle Wa USA

    eyschulman Senior Member

    Frosty it has been said here in many ways. It is about $. When fuel goes to 15$/gal you will see some boats of the type you invission. At this time it is not wise to build boats that will have little or no return on investment. Many power boat people want to go fast and they want lots of room and heavy stuff on their boats. The trawler set may go slower but they tend to want roomy very heavey boats. Very few of these boats are used more than a few hundred hours/year thus fuel costs are not the major overall expense(YET). I am presently haveing a 48ft one off built and it is not a gold plate yacht, yet very expensive. The boat is off the main track and I doubt if I could sell it the day it is delivered for half what it costs. There are few people who can afford to do this or are nuts enough. I have priorities in my SOR that work against total targeting of fuel economy as you desire. If you have one or two million bucks to spend you can have your boat. It will probably be about 60ft long very light narrow and low hight with the interior of a 30ft sailboat. The construction would have to be very high tech(one bad cure and it all falls apart). There would be others who would like to own your boat and be willing to pay maybe 10% of what it cost you.
     
  5. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    2 Million for a 60 footer, are you a designer? You are talking just like one.


    Who said that owners want big heavy furniture ( owners tend to want roomy heavy boats),--- thats what this thread is about --THEY DONT. Or to phrase it more accurately I dont.

    This is exactly what I am talking about -stick in the mud, this is the way we do it or you wont sell it. Look around you --thats why your not selling your huge 800HP Cummins blocks of flats.


    Maybe people dont use these boats much because it takes a morning to get over to the fuel dock and fuel it, then leave in a Haze of black carbon emission trying to get over the hump.

    Contrary to your post it will not cost more, how can going lighter in ally frames for interior fittings, the endless design of formica today, clever use of plastic.

    You've been on a 747 hav'nt you. is the interior ugly, unusable.

    Look to the aircraft industry, the warm interior of a an aircraft is what I envisage.

    Next time you sit in your Toyota take a second to enjoy the moulded plastic interior and most importantly the pleasing accuracy of it.

    I don't want an interior resembling the dining room of Titanic, why do you insist I must have.

    As for the hull ,--think Cat!!!!!! why is it always a slug of a Trawler. I do'nt want to go fishing or slog my way round at 5 knots with pots and pans ratting hoping I can get back before dark . I want to skim over the top of it.

    I don't want orange wood floors, I want light weight carpet that can be taken up hosed off and dried in the sun in one day,--- Or replaced in the same time. Similar to kitchen carpet.

    Traditional oak!!!!!! ha ha Step up to the modern world.
     
  6. Stumble
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Location: New Orleans

    Stumble Senior Member

    Frosty,

    That may be what you want, but it isn't what most of the people who buy these boats want. In fact of all the people I know of who own boats in this size range, all but one have the same type of interiors at their house, and the other lives in a ultra-modern place with glass and steel everywhere.

    The simple reality is what you are describing isn't what most of the people buy, and this thread is just a tirade at yacht designers for building what sells to the market place, instead of your personal dream.

    Think I'm wrong? Fine, get the boat designed, get a builder on board, and go try and sell the boat to buyers. If you are right, you should make a ton of money, if not...
     
  7. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    The consumer doesnt know what they want , they choose. Its the way forward.

    The world is tired of American way fuel guzzlers.

    I will not publish personal messages as I think they are personal but your wrong to think im the only one.
     
  8. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    You're not wrong Frosty, but markets are pushed by sales figures and the boat you want wouldn't sell, at least in the numbers necessary to amortize the development and molding costs, in a reasonable amount of time. This is the bottom line for production builders, sell enough units to start making money, which takes x number of units, across x number of years. They're not boat builders, they're product sellers.

    You are a classic example of why designers have jobs and complaining about the business realities, of production manufacture's business models, isn't going to help much. You need a custom design, plain and simple.
     
  9. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Vancouver

    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    Boats are hard enough to sell...try selling your custom boat.
    Need to find someone: who has the money,who likes the design,and who likes your interior design and colours. Good luck.

    And what's the boat used for?
    Unless you really need a long range vessel and are actually going to use it,you'll never come anywhere near paying it off in fuel savings and will it take lifetimes.

    Or that nice long and skinny boat with the living area of a boat half it's size,will cost you 7 times as much to build and 3 times as much in dockage,where they spend almost all their time.
     
  10. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Dont you think power cats are an example of a light weight economy boat, they are very desirable boat and are very popular their second hand value remains very competative.

    Now hold that thought a moment and go one more stage on a light weight cat.

    I have no idea why people keep talking about long slim boat with limited accomodation ---I never have.

    I have explained it once, I would look a bit silly going all over it again.
     
  11. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member




    The first paragraph describes all boats in the world and the second is fabricated none sense you made up. I have idea how much your dock costs nor is it relevant.

    In these years of Hybrids and most cars achieving 40-50 MPG it would appear I am talking to the classic Land Rover and static steam engine club.
     
  12. BertKu
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: South Africa Little Brak River

    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi Frosty,

    I think in principle you are right. Why don't you compile a list of questions and do a poll. But , but, but, boatdesingers and boatbuilders should not reply, just all the other people with a wish and a dream. Although the people with the money will not register to this forum, it still give an idea in which direction most people think. I agree with you that economics is going to play a bigger and bigger role, even for rich people, as it has become a buzz word during cocktail parties.

    Bert
     
  13. MrHysucat
    Joined: Apr 2012
    Posts: 22
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    Location: Cape L' Agulhas/South Africa

    MrHysucat Hysucat Evangelist


    Hi Frosty, if the hull is unsuitable to use the Hysucat foils then there is little or nothing that can be done about it. If it was said a while back then it would have been Malan Conradie who is the designer that gave you the bad news.

    It is just a nice way of saying that we don't want to waste your money on something we know is not going to work.

    If however you want a new efficient catamaran that can be arranged. :p We have used these hulls for racing so we know about light weight as well. And like you say .... there are many choices of materials. Unfortunately in the low volume world of yacht building something like molded plastic is not a reality.

    I very much like the new hybrid drives, but you might want to keep the Cummings to use as an anchor.
     
  14. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Do not Hysucat advertise there product as being perfect for semi-displacement catamarans.

    44 foot 2x250HP top speed 24 kts round bilge 14 tons, surface drive.

    Is'nt that right in your ball park?
     

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  15. MrHysucat
    Joined: Apr 2012
    Posts: 22
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    Location: Cape L' Agulhas/South Africa

    MrHysucat Hysucat Evangelist

    Hi Salty, is this your current boat or something you are planning to build ?

    Will have an engineer look at it and get back to you.

    What are you hoping to achieve by fitting the hydrofoils ?
     
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