Please advise on partially submerged 04 Johnson175 engine

Discussion in 'Outboards' started by the brain, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. the brain
    Joined: Sep 2016
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    Location: AL

    the brain Senior Member

    Please advice on partially submerged 04 Johnson175 engine

    I was swamped over the weekend saltwater has entered the 04 Johnson 175HP
    This happened approshemently 2am Saturday the engine wasn’t completely submerged (because I was beached at time of swamping)
    But engine was in water lower than the cowl seal.

    This is what I have done
    1.Drained the carbs w/ engine tilted completely up
    2.pumped new fresh fuel though then replaced each drain plug bolt.
    3.drained 2 stroke oil resoivor
    4.dissconnected oil line pumped in new 2 stroke oil
    5.cleaned battery connections to starter
    6.removed all spark plugs and tilted trailer as high as I could, I observed a clear fluid
    Exiting just the two lower cylinders, then sprayed fogging oil into all cylinders.


    All this done Sunday afternoon at this time I was able to turn over the engine w/ the starter but the engine wouldn’t start. edit the engine would only turn over when tilted up
    Not when tilted down.

    Now early Monday morning engine will not turn over w/ starter, the starter makes a dull clicking noise kindof like a car starter that has a bad solenoid but the clicking was dull.

    7. early Monday morning removed all spark plugs w/ engine tilted completely up filled each cylinder w/ diesel fuel researching how to manually turn over engine there’s a cover over the flywheel. Or will the diesel fuel leak down past the rings into the crank and it’s bearing.

    edit: the lower units gear oil is still the same fluid I thought it was like a sealed transmission and separate from engine.

    Any tips on restarting a parsley submerged engine.
    Thanks
     
  2. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Most likely the engine is locked with corrosion. A swamped engine needs to be drained, pickled and run as soon as possible. The run time has to be at least an hour to boil out any moisture left. If the submersion was in salt water, the engine needs to be completely flushed with fresh water first, before any other procedure. The fact that the engine locked when tilted down seems to indicate the crankcase has water in it.
     
  3. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Yep, when this happens or if the motor is dropped overboard, the keys are to very quickly drain off any water, particularly the crankcase and as Gonzo mentioned get her pickled, to prevent corrosion and buy you some more time to access the amount of water she's sucked up. Fuel systems, electrics, etc., all need to be checked, drained and treated with a hydrophobic coating at least, which is also the point of pickling the engine (it drives the water to the drain plugs and the low points) so it's easier to remove and staves off corrosion.

    AT this point you've likely (again as Gonzo mentioned) hydro-locked her or she's frozen on corrosion. It doesn't take very long for enough rust and corrosion to form to prevent highly machined parts from sliding past each other easily. Given the amount of time that has now past, you'll likely have a surface coating of rust on the bare steel and iron parts inside the engine and oxidation on the aluminum parts. You might get lucky, flush out the engine and hope for the best, but odd are some damage has or will occur unless she's pulled apart, clean and possibly polished up.

    Do NOT try to manually turn the engine unless you're absolutely sure the crankcase has been drained on a 2 stroke. In fact, this applies to 4 strokes too, but it's more a piston compression issue in these.
     
  4. the brain
    Joined: Sep 2016
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    the brain Senior Member

    yes the submersion was in saltwater.

    not sure how to drain a engine I do know how to drain lower unit (which I haven't done yet).
    edit I was able to flush the engine though the flush port.

    did not think LU effected restarting engine.kindof thought the LU was like a transmision and wouldn't effect engine turning over.

    it seams like the starter is locked now previously I was able to turn engine over w/ starter no w no clicking no turning over.
    Thanks TB
     
  5. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    I'm not clear on what has actually happened here, in terms of degree of immersion. If it really has suffered submersion, and given the time elapsed, your only hope is to disassemble the powerhead pronto. In a case of salt water entering an engine, and being left as long as this, rust will be forming on vital bearing surfaces, the cylinder bores (unless chromed, I suppose) piston rings etc. You can rinse parts in fresh water, then polish off surface rust on crankshaft journals, conrod bearing surfaces etc, with very fine wet and dry paper, used wet with some kero or diesel. If salt water really has got inside ( are the plugs rusty, when you remove them ?) you can't take the risk that procedures that don't involve disassembly might work for you. It is a gamble that is almost certain to cause powerhead failure under load. Then you have a lost cause, in all probability.
     
  6. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    gonzo Senior Member

    The flushing of the engine we are referring to is for the inside mainly. You take the plugs and air box off and fill it with fresh water and drain several times, turning very slowly by hand. Then, fill it with diesel fuel or kerosene and drain it again. Next you crank it to blow as much fluid as possible through the plug holes. Finally, run it for at least an hour.
     
  7. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    In this case, he has left it too long for that kind of procedure to be trusted, imo. Even slight rust on internal bearing surfaces is likely to end in sudden seizure, and will likely destroy the powerhead. Especially when load is applied.
     
  8. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    At the very least, remove plates that allow a view into the exhaust and/or inlet side of the cylinders, to see if any rust is evident in there, with the bore or rings. If there is rust, I'd pull it down.
     
  9. ondarvr
    Joined: Dec 2005
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    Location: Monroe WA

    ondarvr Senior Member

    Copy and past from the same question on another site.

    No, the diesel fuel will not reliably protect anything in the crankcase if it was only put in through a spark plug hole, it needs to go through the carbs while the motor is turning over, it's much better to actually restart the motor absolutely as soon as possible though. Being out of the saltwater this long and not having been started or disassembled normally means if there was any water in the crankcase it's most likely already rusting inside there.

    Saltwater dunked motors that aren't started right away are normally toast, and even when started right away you will tend to have electrical issues in the near future due to corrosion.
     
  10. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    The OP was pretty vague about what actually happened to it, but if you can see rust anywhere inside it, it would have to be pulled down to be recoverable, or it is a wrecker.
     
  11. the brain
    Joined: Sep 2016
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    the brain Senior Member

    update Tuesday morning took the engine to the professional he took apart starter (no water or any moisture inside starter)found the brushes where loose caused by over starting. he stated her Tuesday afternoon.

    anyway he said the saltwater wasn't in there long enough to rust crank, he's had it running long enought only to get to operating temp. so I don't think he's run it very long, he choked the carbs w/ covering the inlet to carb.

    I've read engine needs to be running for minimum one hour to completely dry any moisture inside engine is this true or false? woops reread Gonzos advice so must be true

    I'll pick her up this Friday. so theres a chance theres still damaging moisture inside engine?

    probably next time on water will be (weather permitting) 3rd week in March for cobia season in the GOM plenty of time for me to sort out the few leakie revitos (maybe gulvert inside of hull ontop of replacing leakie revitoes) . completely seal splashwell / poured in foam inside engine POD and some wiring.

    also plan to invest in name brand 2K bilge pump how doe's the Rule 2K look?
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000O89BCQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004XACR90/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
    https://www.amazon.com/Rule-35A-Mat...D=41X08qKH-oL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=detail
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017

  12. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Any outboard with salt water intrusion would be hard to crank, as if the battery is low, as rust on rings/cylinder wall grip. Any such motor is likely to have rust on the crank/conrod journals. You really should remove any plates that allows you to see into the guts of it, through the exhaust ports, for any sign of rust. Those gaskets are pretty cheap and easy to do.
     
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