Pilot house - functionality

Discussion in 'Motorsailers' started by globaldude, Apr 23, 2006.

  1. globaldude
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    globaldude court jester

    I'm building a pilot house 50' yacht and was reading in an old " practical boat owner" magazine, that working boats, EG tugs, don't have the spoked wheel type steering wheels, but rather a truck type steering wheel set up at much the same angle as you'd find in a truck / car .
    The article claimed it was more functional and comfortable as opposed to the old salty type spoked version mounted vertically on the bulkhead.
    Sound good to me, with room for your legs to go under the wheel I'd say , while seated in your high backed, adjustable armrests, suspention seat .

    Now regarding the windows angle ;1; the trawler/ fishing boat forward angled windows VS 2; the sleeker raked back aerodynamic look.

    Comments made were, type 1; shaded, wind blows water off the glass, no glare , more agricultural look.
    Type 2; suffers from glare - & faded interior, wind blows water up the glass restricting visibility, less wind resistance, smoother looks .

    The trawler forward facing [ top ] windows sound more practical to me, but do you think ------ well what's your opinion ?
     
  2. Eric Sponberg
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    Eric Sponberg Senior Member

    Wheel: A truck-type wheel works OK on tugs because tugs do A LOT of maneuvering, so the helmsman is spinning the wheel a lot--you need one of the ball cranks on the wheel to make the work easier. If you are going to be doing mostly long hauls and not touching the wheel too much, then the traditional mariner's vertical mount makes more sense. Think of the resale value, too--pilot houses are highly personal, and a truck-type wheel is unusual and may give a poor impression to a new owner.

    Windows: Glare is a big factor when sailing at night. If you intend to spend a lot of nights underway with a helm station right under aft-slant windows, then you will get sick of the glare after about 15 minutes. If your helm station is well back from the windows, the glare might not be a problem. The other consideration, of course, is how do the windows and the shape of the pilot house fit with the rest of the design--the pilot house, deck, and the hull should look like they belong together, not patched together.

    I hope that helps.

    Eric
     
  3. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    With the electronic autopilots fitted to almost everything these days, and with the electric/hydraulic steering gears that are becoming very common, the wheel style is really just a matter of personal preference. Some boats now (the Dashew FPB 83 comes to mind) don't even use the wheel or throttles, replacing them with a jog dial and sliders on a little controller about the size of a GameBoy. I agree with Eric that if you do have a mechanically coupled wheel, the truck/bus style would be more comfortable to manoeuver with than the vertical mariner's wheel.

    I'm a fan of the forward-raked windows myself. It gives more useable space inside, less glare, and 'salty' looks. The sleeker look seems to crop up more on high-style, short-range cruisers than on boats designed for serious ocean work.
     
  4. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "truck/bus style would be more comfortable to manoeuver with than the vertical mariner's wheel."

    ANY non spoked wheel , what rag baggers call a destroyer wheel works just fine at fast manuvers.
    Remember SOME auto pilots actuall spin the wheel , rather than porting hyd fluid or running a pump.

    The smooth outside wheel is far less likely to bother folks than the spoke style rapidly spinning.type

    while seated in your high backed, adjustable armrests, suspention seat .

    No question an auto (usually Chrysler product) power seat stuck on a pedistal makes a comfortable perch , as does many class 8 treuck seats.

    Of course if you have $6000 or so kicking holes in your billfold a STIDD , sure is fine!

    FAST FRED
     
  5. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    Another advantage of the forwarded angled windows is that you get extra space to locate electronics there.
     
  6. Redsky
    Joined: Jul 2006
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    Redsky Senior Member

    here is a good compairison global to what eric said..http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=25424&url= very bad,and ugly as sin to....... mutch better are these http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...&units=Feet&checked_boats=1210960&slim=quick& , http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...&units=Feet&checked_boats=1250030&slim=quick& , and this http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...&units=Feet&checked_boats=1165249&slim=quick& , and while im not a fan of raked back windows http://yachtworld.com/core/listing/...&units=Feet&checked_boats=1379175&slim=quick& hope this helps provide examples of eric's last comment, my personal fave is the stephens really.its built as a real ship but i like the layout of the black hulled schooner better it carrys 3 times the fuel too. sorry for all the for sale listing links however i think ones that are floating already give the best designe points and ideas.
     
  7. Lyle Creffield
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    Lyle Creffield Junior Member

    Hi globaldude

    Re: forward sloping pilothouse windows

    I personal prefer them and at 50 ft they will look ok

    Most of the gulf (Gulf of Carpentaria/NE Aust.) boats add a horizontal awning out from the wheel house it is great shade

    I have just about finnished costing the construction of a 50 fter here in Aust.
    and would be interested in your costings

    The obstical to forward facing windows for me is the thought of solid wall of water striking it as opposed to flowing over a raked structure

    lyle
     
  8. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    Yes indeed.... it seems most truly seaworthy installations have really beefy windows... like 19 mm tempered glass, or that laminated-polycarbonate stuff the President's limo has. I don't like seeing house window glass in boats... scary.
     
  9. Lyle Creffield
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    Lyle Creffield Junior Member

    19mm glass for house windows

    Hi Marshmat

    I have not been onboard a vessel that has taken a solid wave over the wheel house

    I intend to cruise hopefully in 45-50ft pilothouse sailing vessel

    I am not one who believes in weather windows nor do i leave port in a 20 fter with 20 kns blowing

    I have been quoted prices for 600 x 600mm certified escape hatches that have only have 10mm polycarbinate?

    A 10metre wave has 10tonne per square metre force i can not see these hatches withstanding this even without a sharp object being envolved

    Guess if they were to break you could excape- as if

    lyle
     
  10. globaldude
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    globaldude court jester

    Cost ---- A lot cheaper than buying one.

    Giday Lyle, ahh, "costings " !, I've heard of them .
    I think it's probably not too smart to cost out building or I may not have started !!.

    No, not really, but truth is, for me anyway, I have no idea what the final cost will be.
    I know it'll be a lot cheaper than people say it will and that's mainly because I've allways got my nose to the ground to sniff out "bargains" .
    Thus far; Hull & decks [ built like the proverbial brick out house --- I brought it complete but will be modifing it substantially] $15,000.
    Ahh, but it came with about 3.5 ton of lead & enough insulation to do the whole boat, [ excess from those bloody frigates us Kiwis built you Auzzis ]
    1.5 ton of Lister LP4 engine & hyd box = $750.
    Enough Macracarpa timber to do complete fit out - all sarking , framework for furniture carcases etc = free !! , well sort of, it floated down the river next to my house/workshop & I fished it out with a mate's crane then did a few contra deals to get it all milled / thicknessed etc.
    Two of my mates have mobile sand blasting units & when ready I'll have earnt enough " credits " to be able to use their gear gratis .
    So that leaves me with electrical, plumbing, I have a lot of hydrulic [ can't spell it but still have it] valves, power pacs, fittings, rams, winches etc.
    Lets see, paint, prop - have shaft - windows [ more on that later], oh yeah masts, rigging - galvanised - can see the break comming, I have quite a few sails both old & new,
    I know there's a miried of things I've missed out, chain , windlass - hope to buy the apropriate gypsy but build my own oversized windlass useing the hydrulic slew gear from a truck crane, they're so powerfull, the hyd motor drives a worm drive.
    UH OH !! wife comming, must go, going out for din dinns.
    Hope to have boat ready to go for 50 --- 70 K NZ$. dreaming !?, I don't think so , I'll keep you posted, better still , jump on a plane & come over for a look see, you're welcome to stay a few nights. WE can talk rugby or netball , seeings as it's our turn to kick your butts of late.

    Really gota go, she's waiting in the car !!!!!!
    Pete.
     
  11. Lyle Creffield
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    Lyle Creffield Junior Member

    Costing 50fter

    Hi Pete

    well, that is fantastic - your deals so far!!!!

    A great bargan hunter

    Having rebuilt from scratch a Diamond Reo truck and a beef property (only 80 breeders) i know that i will not lay the keel untill i can see the project through

    At $300 000 AUD est. i will not be laying the keel this year

    Some est.
    Plans, NC files cutting yet to receive back quote maybe $25K
    Mast supplied and fitted, Furlex reefing, Anderson winches 4x 40s 2x50 rig tuned $40K
    Main 50 s metres $4.4K-supercruise 8oz, Genoa 8oz 65s m $4k
    Yanmar 50 sail drive plus variable pitch prop, exhaust and the basics not fitted $30k
    4tonne aluminum plate (10mm)$29k
    Est 1200hrs at $50 per hr hull, deck, rudder $60K
    10 x 600 x600 hatches $6.7K
    Bulb keel $15k ex factor (4t)
    Add house windows ,anchor winch, steering (dual) and she will float and be arround for a couple of hundred years for arround $215k

    enthusiasm has dimed to but an exercise

    Best of luck with your vessel

    thanks for the offer but uni beckons for the next couple of years

    lyle
     
  12. Duma Tau
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    Location: Scotland, Clyde.

    Duma Tau Junior Member

    Forward leaning deckhouse windows are the best, by a long, long way mate.

    No glare, less rain, look good too. Open a window, and the rain stays out while you are anchored, mostly, unless it is driving rain!

    I built a few boats and sailed 'em with forward slanted glass, took some heavy water over the wheelhouse roof too, lost the furniture off there as a result, but windows stayed put & watertight.

    Lots of reclaimed windows from de-commissioned trawlers in Europe, especially Scotland, whose fleet is decimated by EEC CFP ( Common Fisheries Policy,) the fatcat politicians make skippers scrap their vessels, so lots of parts come up for grabs. MFV windows are massively strong.

    The type with vertical sliding action are best, you can lock 'em any height by friction knob, no seals or hinges to screw up or corrode.

    Have fun sailing your boat in NZ mate, such a beautiful place.......sailed out of New Plymouth area and visited South Island a year or two ago.
    Just fabulous, nearly as pretty as Scotland!
     
  13. Duma Tau
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    Location: Scotland, Clyde.

    Duma Tau Junior Member

    Forgot to say; used a scrapped Citroen 2CV steering wheel for years on my wee Mitchell MFV, it was great!
    Just a big daft rim with ONE spoke.
    Now that is real minimalist, efficient design.

    My current Junk schooner has a wooden spoked wheel mind, and I love it too........her open high placed poop deck right aft means my hands are often cold & wet: wooden spokes feel good at those times.
    Looks pretty too, in an old-fashioned way, on a wooden boat like her . Iconic.


    Misty Isle ( my 1946 52ft Ring-Netter MFV ) has a crazy-looking Kelvin of Glasgow "Tattie-Howker" wheel.
    This resembles an agricultural device, a wagon-wheel with no rim, or potato-harvester hub with wheel spokes sticking out with NO rim anywhere! Idea is/was that herring scales made ordinary wheels useless.....the resultant co-efficient of friction being near to teflon with whale-oil slick.

    Best wheel autopilot ever is a 1" Whitworth wing-Nut which locks the Kelvin wheel splindle in desired position with one wee twist man;......she maintains a true course staright ahead for hours that way, no electronics required.

    Record was 5 hours SSW enroute Irvine to Carrickfergus Ireland, dead straight. Honest. Had to swerve to miss Paddy's Milestone mid-voyage.

    Good Luck!
     
  14. globaldude
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    globaldude court jester

    och aye de neuw !!

    Good on ya mate, love the 1" whitworth auto pilot !!.
    I wish we had access to the windows you do, any Idea of the thickness & or whether they are tempered / laminated ??. Just to give me an idea as to what to plan for.

    I't'd seem the consensuss is for the forward facing windows - hardly surprising for a nautical lot ! - so I guess I'll have to do a drawing or 3 to get a look at what she could / should look like eh .

    So glad you liked the sailing you did here, but if it was only the west coast !!?? , the east is way calmer with many more anchorages .

    I'd like to think we'd get over your way --- but had't thought to cruise around the UK as [ you probably know ] we're spoilt here, we anchor for free and even berth often for free, and I'm led to believe a whee boat will come out to extract levies should one drop one's anchor in the mother country !! [ yes -no ?]
    Oh, we love the whales & don't like [ eat ] herrings here so I should be ok without the spokes ha ha .
     

  15. FAST FRED
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Just be sure you can OPEN the FWD window for some ventilation !

    And an opening one aft really helps too.

    FAST FRED
     
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