Philippines Traditional Boat Update

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by CaramoanReef, Feb 16, 2023.

  1. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    we need more humor here; it is damned refreshing
     
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  2. rxcomposite
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    rxcomposite Senior Member

    Ghostbuster. The time I have to apply that anti termite solution. Over reacting but I am too old for that toxic thing. Don't have the natural immunity the younger guys have.

    Luckily it was during the Covid lockdown and PPE was the trend. 132803017_3602511639833750_3218869987424425259_n (2).jpg
     
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  3. CaramoanReef
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    Location: Caramoan, Camarines Sur, Philippines

    CaramoanReef Junior Member

    I found out that I can get West Systems Epoxy + Hardener Kit for about $160 for a gallon.
     
  4. CaramoanReef
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    Location: Caramoan, Camarines Sur, Philippines

    CaramoanReef Junior Member

    Thanks for the link. They call them "broma" here, and all of the boats end up getting them. If there is just a slight scratch in the paint on the dugout part of the boat, they get in and start burrowing! I'd like a synthetic and durable barrier between the wood and the ocean so that I don't have to worry about keeping the paint underneath perfect all of the time. It is a medium sized boat (about 30'+ long) so hauling it out of the water on a regular basis is difficult.
     
  5. CaramoanReef
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    Location: Caramoan, Camarines Sur, Philippines

    CaramoanReef Junior Member

    Thanks for the great process. I am certain that following that would give me a very well sealed boat. It sounds a bit heavy, though. Also, these are not termites, they are a type of sea creature that burrows into wood. They make much larger holes than termites do! I also appreciate your use of available materials here in the Philippines, although I am not familiar with Ortho resin.
     
  6. CaramoanReef
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    Location: Caramoan, Camarines Sur, Philippines

    CaramoanReef Junior Member

    Most locals will throw it away when it leaks and falls apart. Very few people put in the time and money to keep out the bugs from making holes in their boat.
     
  7. rxcomposite
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    rxcomposite Senior Member

    The Century Chemicals covers not only termites but wood borers as well. It is cheap because it is local. Compare with Solignum, the premium brand.

    You must have an old traditionally built boat. It has a solid log keel dugout. Logs are no longer available especially at 30 feet.

    Contact Polymer Products. They have a branch in Naga city and carries West System Epoxy 105 and hardener as well as fiberglass and all composite supplies. If still inconvenient, contact them thru email. I am in no way connected with Polymer.
     
  8. CaramoanReef
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    Location: Caramoan, Camarines Sur, Philippines

    CaramoanReef Junior Member

    Here are some photos of the inside and outside of the boat. Would it be easier to make a composite to replace the dugout? Cut off the wood part and put a fiberglass one in its place? How would I do something like that and maintain the strength that the original wood provided? How would I attach it to the bulkheads? Thanks for everyones help on figuring this out!
     

    Attached Files:

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  9. rxcomposite
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    rxcomposite Senior Member

    We used to do that. In fact we were offering only fiberglass keel (baol), the bottom part but did not sell any. It is the complexity of attaching the frames to the keel and attaching the marine plywood sides that is both technical and complex.

    It was easier to mold it in one piece and tab/attach the fiberglass stiffeners. It is a basic shell by which the bamboo outriggers and floats can be attached. We sold several hundreds in Bataan, Roxas city, and Gensan. Bamboo, when it rots, you go to the forest and cut what you need. Nowadays, it is sold in roadside.
     
  10. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    You cannot get better support than rxcomposite, but I am not unwilling to share my thoughts.

    As Rumars has said, the wood is done here. The best it could offer would be as a plug. What I would do if my boat is cut the wood at the chine logs about a foot or two and then leave a one inch piece every foot. Plastic over the bottom to the cuts. Remove all the paint and glass up and over the chine to the waterline. Chine needs to be rounded well. Remove all paint to waterline. Precoat and poison or burn woth wire all wormholes not in the bottom and use thickened resin to fill. Then glass 3mm over the plastic and to the waterlines. This is about 3 layers of 1708.

    Then carefully remove the bottom with an oscillating tool or chisels. Then remove the inside paint and glass a couple more layers inside and up the sides a bit. You will use about 10 yards of glass per layer or 50 yards. About 250x5 or 1250 ounces of resin plus some for loss and fills and precoating. This is 10 gallons. Each layer on the outside is a bit smaller than the prior, but all should wrap the chine

    You may want to add some wood floors or transverse members later.

    You could also buy a marine foam, but the bottom looks round so it would be a bit impractical.

    RXComposite is the best one for advice, but if this were my boat and I had the funds for 10 gallons of epoxy and 5 layers of 600/225 glass or 1708; this would be my approach.

    Otherwise, new wood bottom and maybe just glass 3 layers and poison paint on bottom.

    PS, when you glass the inside; you would need to make a large fillet at the chine so the glass has a nice radius. This is done with fumed silica. There are probably a few more details and if this is confusing; ask away and let a few others coin in..
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2023
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  11. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Even with a glass bottom; I'd still add some wood runners to keep abrasion off the glass and paint and make a peace offering to the wood worm God.
     
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  12. CaramoanReef
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    Location: Caramoan, Camarines Sur, Philippines

    CaramoanReef Junior Member

    Unfortunately, what is available and what is legal are two different things. It is still cheaper to go into the jungle and cut down a tree and make a dugout than it is to purchase all of the materials to make a composite based hull. I purchased this boat from a town just a few kilometers away. It has served us well for 3 years, and I'd like to make it last another 3 years if I can. If I replace the wood dugout with fibeglass, would there be a savings in weight?
     
  13. CaramoanReef
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    Location: Caramoan, Camarines Sur, Philippines

    CaramoanReef Junior Member

    Thanks for taking the time to provide your knowledge! When you say "chine", I am thinking of the lines on the outside of a fiberglass speed boat, but this is a canoe shaped hull that is straight and smooth on the outside. Does it still have a chine? Would it be where the wood dugout connects to the plywood sides? I apologize for my igonorance on the subject! Also, 10 gallons of epoxy would cost me 10 x $180 = $1,800! I paid $1,600 for the boat when it was new! ha ha. Would this approach work with polyester resin?
     
  14. rxcomposite
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    rxcomposite Senior Member

    In some very rural areas, yes. A safer way is go to a sawmill and ask if you can buy a log. They have the necessary permit. Ask how much it will cost and ask a boatbuilder how much it would cost to shape it and fit it to what remains of your boat.

    Your option then is then to modernize the built. 4" x 8" timber for the keel, some heavy
    planks to attach the frames, and lumber to attach it to the side stiffener. This is how the modernized banca is built. More like a traditional wooden boat. Talk to a boatbuilder in your area.

    "If I replace the wood dugout with fibeglass, would there be a savings in weight?" No, solid fiberglass is heavier than wood. The keel is supposed to be the thickest, most rigid, and strongest part of the boat and is usually solidly built. Fiberglass will last 20+ years.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2023

  15. rxcomposite
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    rxcomposite Senior Member

    I guess it is out if your league. Before you embark on this project, talk to a seasoned local boatbuilder. They may lack the formal education but they can spew out data like an "engineer". They are masters of the trade. I know because we employed some. They worked with us because they said "I do not know about fiberglass but I am willing to learn".

    If still interested in building a "frankentine" banca, I will post the method on how a fiberglass hull is mated to a wooden/metal sides. This is a practice builders in Laguna Lake has mastered.
     
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