Personal Aircraft Carrier

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Toot, Sep 15, 2006.

  1. Craig C
    Joined: Jul 2006
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    Craig C Junior Member

    Larry Ellisons Yacht Katana , previously Eco had a sea plane onboard. This was lauched into the sea in the same way as a Skip is picked up by a truck, on hydraulic rams across a central beam. It transpired that this solution did not work as well as anticipated. The elderly owner of Eco died not long after her launch and so Larry bought the boat. His needs required a basketball court and so the seaplane was ditched. It seems that his new boat Rising Run also has a basketball court but I am still unclear as to her helicopter capabilities

    Craig C
     
  2. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    A basket ball court?? Now theres a good idea,-- a snooker table room perhaps for the long sea voyages?
     
  3. Ari
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    Ari Patience s/o Genius

    Basket ball court ..wow..

    Jack, I thought some space for my table tenis table on deck is crazy enough..I don't want my children to get this basket ball idea even for half of the 'D'. I can hardly stand it when they play right infront of the house until late at night..onboard if the ball go a pounding..think about the echo..:mad: Something for sure I would like to have..is the golf driving range platform with net surrounding it to catch the ball. Saw this thing at one of the proshop:) .
     
  4. Craig C
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    Craig C Junior Member

    Here a good pic of basketball hoop , but back to the theme, there used to be a seaplane in this spot... Larry's new boat also has basketball court, but no seaplane... Its worth clicking on image to get full size pic
     

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    Last edited: Nov 20, 2006
  5. Greenseas2
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    Greenseas2 Senior Member

    An inexpensive super STOL aircraft

    At the Oshkosh fly in there was a 2/3 scale, 2 passenger Fiesler Storch aircraft that landed in half it's length in a 15 mph wind. Take off was 30 feet. The aircraft has leading edge Kreuger flaps on the front of the wing and large fowler flaps on the trailing edge. It was powered by an 80 hp Rotax engine. This particular aircraft design was built by the Germans for WWII and several are flying today. It's strong points are exceptional short field landing and take-off capability. A converted self powered barge would make an ideal floating airfield for this type aircraft and could be used for search and resue or surveillance.
    The great part about this airplane is that it can amateur built and comes in either a kit or completely build package. In a 22 knot wind, it can hover.......almost. Weight empty is only 600 pounds
     
  6. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    The Storch was one amazing plane, that's for sure.... I guess there's just not as much demand today for ultra-STOL capability. We certainly have the aerodynamic knowledge, and the lightweight high-power engines, and the materials, to build something that can take off and land in less space than the Storch while performing better in the air.
    There aren't many stock airplanes that would be suitable for our personal carrier here. Sure, a few neat ones have been mentioned already, but none seem perfect for this role. OK, so designing a new aircraft as well is a huge additional cost.... but why not explore the possibility?
     
  7. Greenseas2
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    Greenseas2 Senior Member

    Storch experimental aircraft

    Maybe we could introduce the storch to the Border Patrol and save Homeland Security a bundle. They could land and take off from almost any open area. Before I retired, I was part of a Washington think tank and what the USMC and USN were looking for was a multi-engine Super-STOL logistics aircraft for Over-the Horizon resupply for marines onshore. We came up with a couple of designs with operational characteristics similar to those of a storch and even one design that was a UAV for hot areas where resupply and/or squad extraction was necessary. We also came up with a refined design for a UAV muli engine, heavy lift, gyrocopter concept with ducted turbofans. Neat stuff. Within the overall logistics scenario was a cheap mini-carrier that also had the capability of producing fresh water for troops ashore in remote locations. The idea paralleled the personal aircraft carrier concept to a degree. The main thrust was to develop a large ship with 2 active duty runways that could resupply a large contingent onshore from over the horizon. Only logistics aircraft would be onboard, no fighters. The USMC's plan was/is to keep several thousand marines at sea, and readily deployable at all times.
     
  8. alaskamokaiman
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    alaskamokaiman Junior Member

    Moller skycar should be out in Dec 08 needs same room as heli and cruises at 275mph. It is not the boat that needs design change but the air craft.
     
  9. Greenseas2
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    Greenseas2 Senior Member

    You are right

    The floating platform can be just about any size with a clear take off and landing path. The aircraft performance is the key. I'm not so sure about the Moller air car. Molt Taylor had the same idea many decades ago and we still don't see any air cars buzzing about. This is the reason that I advocated existing aviation technology with the Storch aircraft. Actually, even while it's slower, the performance numbers are better than the Pilatus Porter and Helio Courier.
    I think that combining marine and aviation technologies could produce an inerxpensive carrier with aircraft that can safely operate from it. The main thrust of this drill is to take a novel idea and find a bonifide use or mission for the combination. Security is the first thing that comes to mind. Here in Florida, shark patrol along the beaches would be another as would border security.
    With all aspects of the plan, the first would be economy of construction and economy of operation to sell a concept of use. Let's face facts, a small budget isn't going to produce any high performance vessel or aircraft, so let's go with what can be done in reality and see what happens. The first criteria would be that the boat has to function like a carrier and look like a carrier. The second is that the aircraft have to be STOL and safe.
     
  10. Greenseas2
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    Greenseas2 Senior Member

    PS. The Storch stalls at 22 mph, therefore the vessels speed into the wind is less important. A good breezt day would offer sufficient wind over the deck. No catapilt or arresting gear needed. Might consider a tennis net at the bow for landing aircraft.........just in case.
     
  11. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    The Moller M400 has eight Wankel engines at 150 hp each, and lists for $995,000 USD. I think a million-dollar VTOL aircraft with 1200 horsepower is a bit more like a luxury helicopter than a cheap bush plane. Not that it's a bad aircraft- I kind of like it- but perhaps a bit pricey for what seems to be a low-budget concept boat. Could be a promising boat-borne option for someone with the money, though, and a lot easier to fly than a chopper.
    As the Canadian navy pilots can testify, landing vertically on a small, pitching deck is a royal pain at the best of times. (Indeed, they don't fly the Sea King all the way down on the boats- just to within a few metres, where the chopper can drop a cable into a receptacle on the deck and be winched down.) Americans have it easy with those massive Nimitz-class boats!
    I think a light, powerful STOL aircraft with a big, efficient wing is the way to go. Take the old Storch as a starting point, maybe add boundary-layer blowing and more modern split flaps, and give it a decent modern motor.
     
  12. Greenseas2
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    Greenseas2 Senior Member

    Concept

    You are right, the price of the Moller is prohibitive, even for planning purposes and being able to potentially sell the concept. I have many hours flying US Army helicopters and am very familiar with confined area operations. Also as a fixed wing pilot, I always enjoyed short field landings and max take-off's. (Landing on the numbers and taking the first intersection off the runway) It seems that we can do something better with the basic 2/3 size Storch. The major effort is to now get a group of enthusiasts together and formulate an approach to doing the project. As also a vessel master, (There are a lot more ship captains that are pilots than there are pilots who are ship captains) there are many contacts in the commercial tug and barge world that may enjoy sponsoring the project. I believe that starting with the modification of a 198 foot deck barge of some vintage may work. Wing span on the 2/3 Storch is 33 feet (10 meters) so we're looking at a 45-50 foot wide barge for starters. The control brudge and "island" can be built off to the side. Son is a ship welder. Just ideas for your thoughts.
     
  13. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    Count me in..... I won't be buying one just yet and I'm still a few years away from my P.Eng, but I wouldn't mind tossing some ideas around :) This kind of project has a tendency to be fun!
    I like the el-cheapo used barge idea, no shortage of those around.
     
  14. Greenseas2
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    Greenseas2 Senior Member

    Economy

    The whole project has to be economical. It does appear that it would be something fun to do. I'll see if I can coerce some of the commercial maritime world to do a little backing as I think they might enjoy being involved in a project of this sort. Also, I'll check Slepcev Aircraft on the price of the Storch kit. Latest data on changes to the plane by Slepcev is that it has been lengthened about 2 feet and they are now offering a 4 cycle engine rather than the riskier 2 cycle. Flying the aircraft solo, the pilot has to fly from the front seat only. We'll be out of town for the holidays until the 28th and I'll get back if any information has come in by that time.
     

  15. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    On the cost note... for those of us who haven't bought an airplane recently....
    A new Cessna Skyhawk 172, probably the most popular four-seat piston-engine general purpose aircraft, starts at $209,000 USD and weighs roughly 1100 kg (a hair over one ton) loaded. (That includes Garmin G1000 avionics.) The Skylane, larger by half, starts at $326,000 USD.
     
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